Not terribly exciting but it's pretty quiet on here, so...

I recently powered up a pretty ancient BBC micro that I rescued 20 years ago - disappointingly it "just worked" straight out of the gate, leaving me with no fun repair work. To my further disappointment it turned out to only have 32K of RAM. I don't have any attachment to BBCs and always hated them in school so really a bit of a let down.

Anyway, I popped it back on today and started mooching around the different graphics modes, found out the BBC can also do inline assembly in the middle of a BASIC program like the later Acorns can and got mildly excited at the idea of knocking up a bouncing lines screensaver while I waited for some backups to finish on the other computer. I realised you can get a lot more text on the screen than I thought and ideas of cabling up the serial port entered my head.

Yeah...

Then fssssssssssssss! A plume of smoke came out of the power supply. Turns out one of the Rifa capacitors had become bored with life and decided to self immolate. Man, those things stink when they do that. And now, so does my house. Don't worry, though, I quickly ran out and got a donner kebab to cover up the smell before the wife gets home.

Take it easy - and don't assume just because you've had a 40 year old computer turned on for a few hours that you're safe from paper capacitors!

BobW
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Then fssssssssssssss! A plume of smoke came out of the power supply.

Ahh the cool sweet smell of the RIFA. Short term you could probably run without, just get the corpse out. Mostly they're there to filter noise being fed back into the mains... And pop in a new one when you get hold of a replacement.

I have a toaster mac here that powered up, would run for a few minutes and power off. Turned out to be a faulty RIFA... it's warm up internally short and trip the RCD.. been sitting there for a while now.. I should get a "round-toit.

ST

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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: StormTrooper to Bob Worm on Sun Sep 17 2023 02:55:04

Hi, StormTrooper.

Ahh the cool sweet smell of the RIFA.

If that isn't very strong sarcasm then you should probably swing by your local ear, nose and throat specialist :)

Short term you could probably run without, just get the corpse out.

Yup, I pulled it out and was very lucky to find it had burned through the side rather than the top so I could still see just enough of the writing to read its capacitance. I also removed the other two RIFAs on the board because... well... screw having that smell in my house again. One looked ok but the other looked to have a definite bulge. I didn't realise paper capacitors did that, I guess maybe they get a bit hot just before they go?

The display was still displaying when I pulled the plug on the power so I think the computer itself probably survived intact. I'm not going to push my luck with 3 of them out!

And pop in a new one when you get hold of a replacement.

Got some on order :) Let's see if these ones last 39 years...

BobW
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Yup, I pulled it out and was very lucky to find it had burned through the side rather than the top so I could still see just enough of the writing to read its capacitance. I also removed the other two RIFAs on the board because... well... screw having that smell in my house again. One looked ok but the other looked to have a definite bulge. I didn't realise paper capacitors did that, I guess maybe they get a bit hot just before they go?

Heh, you're lucky it didn't just decide to go nuclear and coat the interior
of the power supply with goo.. like any capacitor the eletrolyte dries out.. then they get a bit shorty and cook themselves.. There's usually only two
types in the PS X or Y I forget which is which but it depends on where they sit. New RIFA's assuming thats what you got are meant to be solid and in theory won't continue the legacy of letting the smoke out.

Spec


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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Spectre to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 04:54:00

Heh, you're lucky it didn't just decide to go nuclear and coat the interior of the power supply with goo.. like any capacitor the eletrolyte dries out..

I don't think there's any goo in these ones, they're paper with epoxy casing. It left some lovely ejected charcoal marks but it basically wiped away.

New RIFA's assuming thats what you got are meant to be solid and in
theory won't continue the legacy of letting the smoke out.

Call me superstitious but I decided to get some 400V polypropylene ones instead - a bit more room for degradation before they give up and hopefully not as smelly if they do :)

Just returned to the loft and it still smells of toasted RIFA up here :(

BobW
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On 16 Sep 2023, Bob Worm said the following...

I recently powered up a pretty ancient BBC micro that I rescued 20 years ago - disappointingly it "just worked" straight out of the gate, leaving me with no fun repair work. To my further disappointment it turned out

Sounds like quite an adventure, Bob.

Mick

... Oxymoron: Race walking

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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Mickey to Bob Worm on Sun Sep 17 2023 19:34:16

I recently powered up a pretty ancient BBC micro that I rescued 20 years ago - disappointingly it "just worked" straight out of the gate, leaving me with no fun repair
work. To my further disappointment it turned out

Sounds like quite an adventure, Bob.

Well bob, if you need it for repair work, i'm sure if you send it to me i can generate some for you LOL

i'm still trynig to find a decent BBC-B+ or master 512 to bring back to the states with me.

been trawling but can never find one... growing up in the good ol' days i really miss the old beeb and to some point, the electron.

stuck using bbc-em for years.

lol

charlie
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I don't think there's any goo in these ones, they're paper with epoxy casing. It left some lovely ejected charcoal marks but it basically wiped away.

You got away easy then... I've seen everything from billowing clouds, actual fire and sparks, and then the quiet achievers that just let out the smoke and that cool sweet smell.

Call me superstitious but I decided to get some 400V polypropylene ones instead - a bit more room for degradation before they give up and hopefully not as smelly if they do :)

If they last at least as long as the originals its probably odds on that it won't be our proble when they finally give up :)

Spec


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Then fssssssssssssss! A plume of smoke came out of the power supply.
Turns out one of the Rifa capacitors had become bored with life and decided to self immolate. Man, those things stink when they do that. And now, so does my house. Don't worry, though, I quickly ran out and got a donner kebab to cover up the smell before the wife gets home.

:P Fun times... never trust a 'working' retro - sure I might spin up a game, or three - but a full inspection is needed on all the systems we're dr00ling over. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Mickey to Bob Worm on Sun Sep 17 2023 19:34:16

Sounds like quite an adventure, Bob.

Well, it wasn't going to be but for some reason I switched it back on :)

One of these days I'll get around to documenting my nerd's adventure with the Acorn A3020 I rescued the same day, will be a few chapters in that one!

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Charles Blackburn to Mickey on Sun Sep 17 2023 19:56:01

Hi, Charlie.

i'm still trynig to find a decent BBC-B+ or master 512 to bring back to the states with me.

Out of interest what would you do for a display? I gather the PSU is fairly easy to 110-ify but it still wants to output PAL... Maybe a USB capture dongle?

been trawling but can never find one... growing up in the good ol' days i really miss the old beeb and to some point, the electron.

I wish I had that kind of nostalgia... our school had about 8 of the things on their dedicated trollies with the squealy cub monitors but they never seemed to come out of the cupboard and, on the rare occasions that they did, it was Edword not Granny's Garden or Chuckie Egg :(

stuck using bbc-em for years.

Goodness me, you re-lived it and still want one :D

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Spectre to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 09:08:00

Hi, Spec.

You got away easy then... I've seen everything from billowing clouds, actual fire and sparks, and then the quiet achievers that just let out the smoke and that cool sweet smell.

If I had to characterise this one's failure I'd probably liken it to a surprise bout of diarrhea. A fast, forceful, whooshing emission with a strong and distinctive aroma that doesn't want to wash off.

If they last at least as long as the originals its probably odds on that it won't be our proble when they finally give up :)

Funnily enough that's exactly what I said to my friend yesterday. Quote:

"Hoping 400V polypropylene might have a bit more margin and if they burn up in another 39 years a) may not smell was bad, and b) will be someone else's problem"

I mean technically I may still be around at that point but probably won't be able to climb the loft ladder to get to it :)

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: paulie420 to Bob Worm on Sun Sep 17 2023 18:41:25

Hi, Paulie.

:P Fun times... never trust a 'working' retro - sure I might spin up a game, or three - but a full inspection is needed on all the systems we're dr00ling over. :P

Yeah this really stole my confidence and makes me worry about the Acorn I use on a daily basis. Some preventative maintenance may be in order!

BobW
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If I had to characterise this one's failure I'd probably liken it to a surprise bout of diarrhea. A fast, forceful, whooshing emission with a strong and distinctive aroma that doesn't want to wash off.

IPA works reasonably well. You'd probably want to pull the supply and give it
a pretty good spritzing, with a bit of toothbrush action... finish it off
with some extra spritzing to rinse it out.

Spec


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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Spectre to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 19:46:00

Hi, Spec.

IPA works reasonably well. You'd probably want to pull the supply and give it a pretty good spritzing, with a bit of toothbrush action... finish it off with some extra spritzing to rinse it out.

Contact cleaner seemed to do a decent job of taking the residue away. It mostly sprayed onto a chunky metal-cased transistor and the heatsink it's bolted onto - pretty clean-able surfaces but in an awkward position so a toothbrush is an excellent suggestion, thanks.

It'll have a couple more weeks to air before the replacements get here so it's got half a chance :)

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Bob Worm to Charles Blackburn on Mon Sep 18 2023 07:12:01

By: Charles Blackburn to Mickey on Sun Sep 17 2023 19:56:01

i'm still trynig to find a decent BBC-B+ or master 512 to bring back to the states with me.

Out of interest what would you do for a display? I gather the PSU is fairly easy to 110-ify but it still wants to output PAL... Maybe a USB capture dongle?

the display is the easy bit... if i could get my hands on a cub monitor, that would be sweet, but yea i have a multiformat monitor here that can do ntsc, pal and even secam LOL... worse comes to the worse, just grab an old rgb pal monitor from the UK... having 220 isnt a big deal either.

been trawling but can never find one... growing up in the good ol' days i really miss the old beeb and to some point, the electron.

I wish I had that kind of nostalgia... our school had about 8 of the things on their dedicated trollies with the squealy cub monitors but they never seemed to come out of the
cupboard and, on the rare occasions that they did, it was Edword not Granny's Garden or Chuckie Egg :(

oh thems were the days..... when that trolley came out it was either the VCR or the beeb :D we were lucky in our school.. we had the turtle, and a bunch of the addon pods such as the teetext thng etc.

we also had the venerable 380Z/480Z computers in the comp and i ended up wrkiing there wiitht he "IT" teacher most of the last 2 years... evn wrote a school wide "bulletin board" slideshow software in mode 7 that looked just like ceefax :D even had the "900" pages for the techie stuff. that was my 4th/5th year project and it worked great.

stuck using bbc-em for years.

Goodness me, you re-lived it and still want one :D

yup... I love the beeb... and yea... hcuckie egg... still my favorite game next to elite :D

Charlie
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On 18 Sep 2023, Bob Worm said the following...

One of these days I'll get around to documenting my nerd's adventure
with the Acorn A3020 I rescued the same day, will be a few chapters in that one!

I have an old Commodore 64 that sits in the closet. Every once in a while I'll drag it out, connect everthing, start the ol' Commodore monitor, hold my breath, and lightly flip the switch. So far I've been fire-free. :-)

Mickey

------
Mick Manning
centralontarioremote.com:2300
Central Ontario Remote

... I know a good tagline when I steal one!

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:P Fun times... never trust a 'working' retro - sure I might spin up a or three - but a full inspection is needed on all the systems we're dr0 over. :P

Yeah this really stole my confidence and makes me worry about the Acorn
I use on a daily basis. Some preventative maintenance may be in order!

Don't let it do that - I use a few machines that I *haven't* went thru, but all could use a heavy visual lookover, a soak in IPA/alchohol (mobo) and general cleaning... then, for each platform I'll watch youtube videos or research what are normal points of failure - the cool thing is that 10s of thousands of users have ALREADY had every issue happen, so finding out what needs to be serviced, or what might need to be, is easy info to be had...



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Charles Blackburn to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 11:47:55

Hi, Charlie.

oh thems were the days..... when that trolley came out it was either the VCR or the beeb :D we were lucky in our school.. we had the turtle, and a bunch of the addon pods such as the teetext thng etc.

I am sure there was a turtle somewhere in the school, I'm also absolutely certain it never got used the entire time I was there :( Perhaps if any of the teachers had had an interest I might now have shared your obvious enthusiasm... Maybe that's unfair, possibly they just weren't ever trained up on it.

yup... I love the beeb... and yea... hcuckie egg... still my favorite game next to elite :D

It sounds like you have a definite itch to scratch, you really should buy one. I don't think mine would meet your expectations, sadly... not that I'm looking to part with it. Even if I'm not (yet?) a massive Beeb enthusiast it says "Science prep room" on the side in permanent marker, and that's just cool.

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: paulie420 to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 20:25:10

Hi, Paulie.

Yeah this really stole my confidence and makes me worry about the Acorn I use on a daily basis. Some preventative maintenance may be in order!

Don't let it do that - I use a few machines that I *haven't* went thru, but all could use a heavy visual lookover, a soak in IPA/alchohol (mobo) and general cleaning... then, for each platform I'll watch youtube videos or research what are normal points of failure - the cool thing is that 10s of thousands of users have ALREADY had every issue happen, so finding out what needs to be serviced, or what might need to be, is easy info to be had...

I didn't say I'd stopped using it, I just fret a little bit while I do :)

It actually got used last night to help me troubleshoot a weird issue with a Raspberry Pi mis-handling a USB to serial adaptor. Getting garbage displayed both ends when talking to a laptop over serial, both ends display fine when looping Tx/Rx... Enter the 30 year old computer to tie break... Aaand the Pi is at fault. Now packing up to go to a trade fair with a raspberry pi which has duponts hanging out the side and a USB to UART held on the top with yellow insulation tape for that extra professional finish.

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Mickey to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 19:47:54

Hi, Mickey.

I have an old Commodore 64 that sits in the closet. Every once in a while I'll drag it out, connect everthing, start the ol' Commodore monitor, hold my breath, and lightly flip the switch. So far I've been fire-free. :-)

Long may it continue! Funnily enough my wife once called my Acorn "that Commodore 64 thing" - naturally I let that go immediately and didn't create a scene.

Not that I have a problem with the C64, I hope to pick one up at some point to re-live my first computer years. Loved that thing.

BobW
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Bob Worm to Charles Blackburn on Tue Sep 19 2023 06:45:17

Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Charles Blackburn to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 11:47:55

oh thems were the days..... when that trolley came out it was either the VCR or the beeb :D we were lucky in our school.. we
had the turtle, and a bunch of the addon pods such as the teetext thng etc.

I am sure there was a turtle somewhere in the school, I'm also absolutely certain it never got used the entire time I was there
:( Perhaps if any of the teachers had had an interest I might now have shared your obvious enthusiasm... Maybe that's unfair,
possibly they just weren't ever trained up on it.

yea back in my day they were just trained on some thing...but when i really got to play with them i learned so much, as you do.
it's alla nostalgia thing now... I have an old 286 lying around here now my 15 year oldkeeps bugging me to muck around with ... one day when i get around to it lol

yup... I love the beeb... and yea... hcuckie egg... still my favorite game next to elite :D

It sounds like you have a definite itch to scratch, you really should buy one. I don't think mine would meet your expectations,
sadly... not that I'm looking to part with it. Even if I'm not (yet?) a massive Beeb enthusiast it says "Science prep room" on
the side in permanent marker, and that's just cool.

ahhh yea... the good ol' school markings lol.... a friend of my dads has a complete setup i've been trying to get him to let me buy lol

problem s, trying to get a hold of one that's not stupid money or will ship to the states lol

charlie
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Bob Worm to paulie420 on Tue Sep 19 2023 08:28:48

Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: paulie420 to Bob Worm on Mon Sep 18 2023 20:25:10
I didn't say I'd stopped using it, I just fret a little bit while I do :)
It actually got used last night to help me troubleshoot a weird issue with a Raspberry Pi mis-handling a USB to serial adaptor.
Getting garbage displayed both ends when talking to a laptop over serial, both ends display fine when looping Tx/Rx... Enter the
30 year old computer to tie break... Aaand the Pi is at fault. Now packing up to go to a trade fair with a raspberry pi which
has duponts hanging out the side and a USB to UART held on the top with yellow insulation tape for that extra professional
finish.

that sounds likke an every day fx for me at work lmao.

i love it when you do things like that... I have an old dell lugbook that i drag out every now and again when i need a terminal... the look on my customers faces is hilarious when DOS loads up.

especially when that customer is disney..... heck... if it's good for the maclaren motor company and theiir super-cars, it's good for me LOL

Charlie
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Charles Blackburn to Bob Worm on Tue Sep 19 2023 05:56:49

i love it when you do things like that... I have an old dell lugbook that i drag out every now and again when i need a terminal... the look on my customers faces is hilarious when DOS loads up.

Why did I not think of that? There's a lovely 11" DELL craptop in my loft which has a *real* serial port on it. I bet the NiCd battery would still hold a charge :) It's for a display so possibly the 15 degree viewing angle would let it down a bit...

BobW
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nostalgia thing now... I have an old 286 lying around here now my 15
year oldkeeps bugging me to muck around with ... one day when i get
around to it lol

You'll need to find that round-toit fairly quickly, it'll seem like no time he's not there to keep bugging you about wanting to check it out. Seems like no time before they start running off doing their own thing.

Spec


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hold a charge :) It's for a display so possibly the 15 degree viewing angle would let it down a bit...

You remember the old page magnifiers? Paerhaps something like that might
help the display angle. I forget what they are now, but there is a kind of reverse fresnel lens.

Spec


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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Bob Worm to Charles Blackburn on Tue Sep 19 2023 22:46:40

Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Charles Blackburn to Bob Worm on Tue Sep 19 2023 05:56:49

i love it when you do things like that... I have an old dell lugbook that i drag out every now and again when i need a
terminal... the look on my customers faces is hilarious when DOS loads up.

Why did I not think of that? There's a lovely 11" DELL craptop in my loft which has a *real* serial port on it. I bet the NiCd
battery would still hold a charge :) It's for a display so possibly the 15 degree viewing angle would let it down a bit...

they work great and that's the reason why i use this old luggable (amongst others). it has a real serial port LOL.

I have an old HP 15 inch laptop that i just managed to get arcaos up and running on it so i can have a play with that too now lol

charlie
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Spectre to Charles Blackburn on Wed Sep 20 2023 17:20:00

nostalgia thing now... I have an old 286 lying around here now my 15 year oldkeeps bugging me to muck around with ... one day when i get around to it lol

You'll need to find that round-toit fairly quickly, it'll seem like no time he's not there to keep bugging you about wanting
to check it out. Seems like no time before they start running off doing their own thing.

yea... don't i know it.

as my mother used to say..... they get worse as they get old, just ask ya mother LOL

Charlie
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Re: Re: Magic smoke escaped :(
By: Spectre to Bob Worm on Wed Sep 20 2023 17:25:00

hold a charge :) It's for a display so possibly the 15 degree viewing angle would let it down a bit...

You remember the old page magnifiers? Paerhaps something like that might help the display angle. I forget what they are now, but there is a kind of reverse fresnel lens.

just be careful about those, get it wrong and you'll let the magic smoke out of those things too when the sun burns a hole in it LOl... I knmow someone way back when that got one of those... knew nothing aout "focal points" and burnt a hole right through his nice 17 inch LCD tube when he took his pc out to "play" in the sun lol.....

charlie
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