166
Hello All,

There is a new prealpha at http://mysticbbs.com.

I don't know if it'll help with the dupes but maybe. The one I have is dated 20/04/17 so it's been there a while and I never noticed.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Re: New prealpha
By: Al to All on Sun Apr 19 2020 09:45 am

Hey Al,

Seems your origin line has changed back to your fido address:

Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
...deon


... His eyes are so bad, he has to wear contact lenses to see his glasses.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

166
Hello alterego,

Seems your origin line has changed back to your fido address:

Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
...deon

That's wierd. I thought I fixed that yesterday.

I've taken that -tooOld 30 out for the time being and hopefully I can figure that out.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

On 19 Apr 2020 at 09:45a, Al pondered and said...

There is a new prealpha at http://mysticbbs.com.

I have updated NET 1 with the new MUTIL that g00r00 has created with SEEN-BY code enabled. It will be interesting to see how we get on. Thanks :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

166
Hello Avon,

I have updated NET 1 with the new MUTIL that g00r00 has created with SEEN-BY code enabled. It will be interesting to see how we get on.
Thanks :)

I hope that will bring you guys some relief. :)

I was a little shocked to read that SEEN-BY code had been commented out and he was relying on path lines. It doesn't appear to me that mutil is reading the path lines either. In the case of the hubs one or the other should work.

I hope the mutil will do CPD checking and look at SEEN-BY lines also when tossing mail.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Re: New prealpha
By: Al to Avon on Mon Apr 20 2020 08:59 am

I was a little shocked to read that SEEN-BY code had been commented out and he was relying on path lines. It doesn't appear to me that mutil is reading the path lines either. In the case of the hubs one or the other should work.

I was too.

I dont think Mystic should be used as a hub mail tosser at all. James' views on

















































































































































the topic are come across disconnected with what folks want and/or expect. Because of that, I dont think you could reasonibly expect any optimisations, improvement or innovation for that use case.
...ëîåã



... Friends may come and friends may go, but enemies accumulate.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

166
Hello alterego,

I dont think Mystic should be used as a hub mail tosser at all.

There is a pretty strong argument for that.

There are also the Mystic users who simply want to connect a network or three and get that done. I think they are OK to do that if they don't attempt moving mail.

I don't know what the numbers are exactly but I think both Mystic and Synchronet have a large number of users. Hundreds I'm sure. In both cases users

















































































































































are stuck with the supplied tossers. SMB is only supported by Synchronet as far

















































































































































as I know. Mystic uses Jam but has special needs, the mutil forward= lines come

















































































































































to mind. Off the top of my head I don't know any tosser that does that. Perhaps

















































































































































HPT with perl support could do that, but I am unsure.

There is a goal here also that if we reach for it, perhaps we can attain it one

















































































































































day.

James' views on the topic are come across disconnected with what folks want and/or expect. Because of that, I dont think you could reasonibly expect any optimisations, improvement or innovation for that use case.

Whatever James personal views on things he has always listened to input from those who use Mystic and achomail has always been a priority.

This particular road seems more bumpy than I thought it would be but I'm not going to assess the situation from here.. :)

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Re: New prealpha
By: Al to alterego on Mon Apr 20 2020 02:52 pm

Synchronet as far as I know. Mystic uses Jam but has special needs, the mutil forward= lines come to mind. Off the top of my head I don't know any tosser that does that. Perhaps HPT with perl support could do that, but I am unsure.

netmail forwarding - yes, I believe it can be done with rntrack (or a similar tool) - or with the perl support.

I'm about to play with it, since 3/100 is "lights out", I want any netmail sent

















































































































































there to be forwarded to my BBS - or a reply to the sender to say where to send

















































































































































the message instead (which ever I can get working).

There are also the Mystic users who simply want to connect a network or three and get that done. I think they are OK to do that if they don't attempt moving mail.

For that use case, I agree, Mystic is pretty easy to use.

Synchronet have a large number of users. Hundreds I'm sure. In both cases users are stuck with the supplied tossers. SMB is only supported by

Not sure that his is true - you could run hpt in front of Mystic to handle any tossing couldnt you (I thought both Hub 1 and Hub 4 did do that at some point) - since they both support JAM? From what I've read, some folks used to use Intermail(?) in front of Synchronet to toss into SMB - but that was a long time

















































































































































ago I believe.
...ëîåã



... The most delicate component will drop.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 20 Apr 2020 at 02:52p, Al pondered and said...

James' views on the topic are come across disconnected with what folk want and/or expect. Because of that, I dont think you could reasonibl expect any optimisations, improvement or innovation for that use case

Whatever James personal views on things he has always listened to input from those who use Mystic and achomail has always been a priority.

I've done a lot over the years with him and found him receptive to my
feedback, until it seems recently... which really saddens me as have enjoyed the collaboration.

Like anyone he can form a view and wish to stick to it, but I have seen
many times where he has also been open to others comments. I think where
things can get rough at times is where a topic comes up that has shall we say 'history' that the person(s) raising it (often in good faith) will be unaware of.

Then at those times things can get rather heated rather quickly as in the
case of the author it's stuff he's covered many a time before albeit
sometimes in different echos, months or years.

I'm not condoning anyones actions in saying this. I'm just as guilty as the next dude at times for either misreading or not reading what is being said in plain text. But what I would like to point out is that for all of the ups and downs of recent I've found James to be open to feedback and often very quick
to act on it.

Best, Paul

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: New prealpha
By: Avon to Al on Tue Apr 21 2020 04:31 pm

said in plain text. But what I would like to point out is that for all of the ups and downs of recent I've found James to be open to feedback and often very quick to act on it.

This may be true - well is infact true... sometimes.

In terms of running Mystic as a hub for a network infrastructure, he has a view

















































































































































on how that should be run, and he has not demonstrated that he is open to feedback. In fact he has been somewhat hostile.

His recent comments to me regarding message altering, his recent comments in other echos on how SEEN-BY's should be used and the consistent underlying theme

















































































































































"I know what I'm doing", "I've been doing it a long time" and "Mystic is doing it right" is not open to feedback.

Look, I'm not wanting to start anything here, I'm really not. I just think he has a view on how a network should be run with the software he authors, and its

















































































































































not how this network is run, and he has not received feedback on that amicably. There is a difference between "I understand and I'm not willing to make my software change", to how he has handle those questions and feedback.

Thus, I still think it is a risk to continue to use Mystic as a Hub here (and anywhere for that matter).
...ëîåã



... Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 21 Apr 2020 at 03:14p, alterego pondered and said...

This may be true - well is infact true... sometimes.

Look, I'm not wanting to start anything here, I'm really not. I just
think he has a view on how a network should be run with the software he authors, and its not how this network is run, and he has not received

I also do not want to re-litigate things. I do hear and respect your comments.

I have enjoyed using and supporting Mystic for more than six years now and during that time much development work has been done on echomail
functionality. Things have come a long way since I first started using it. While nothing is ever perfect it continues to evolve.

My hope is that the current issues with SEEN-BY can be resolved. It appears to me James is open to doing that and has been working with Al to sort this,
hence I'm testing those updates.

If mass dupes and dramas ensue such that nodes are severely impacted then I am certainly open to moving away from MUTIL as a tosser and have done so in the past for a time.

But my hope is that the issues can be addressed, Time as they say. will tell.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/04/13 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

166

I dont think Mystic should be used as a hub mail tosser at all. James' views on the topic are come across disconnected with what folks want and/or expect. Because of that, I dont think you could reasonibly
expect any optimisations, improvement or innovation for that use case.

The views I have seen him express (or that were attributed to him) seem to indicate that he does not think it should be used as a hub in a network
with multiple hubs and/or in a network where echoes are moved via the "web/mesh" topology.

I am on another network where a Mystic BBS is the hub and I have not heard
of or noticed any issues, but it is the sole hub on that network.



... Here is a loud announcement... Silence in the studio!!
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

Re: New prealpha
By: Al to alterego on Mon Apr 20 2020 02:52 pm

I don't know what the numbers are exactly but I think both Mystic and Synchronet have a large number of users. Hundreds I'm sure. In both cases users
are stuck with the supplied tossers. SMB is only supported by Synchronet as far
as I know.

There *have* been other tossers that supported SMB (e.g. InterMail), but really SBBSecho is the only real survivor and the only one anyone should need. And of course, being open source, nobody's really really "stuck" with SBBSecho's behavior in any regard as they can change it.
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet "Real Fact" #33:
The Synchronet web user interface was contributed by Robert Couture, Runemaster.
Norco, CA WX: 48.0øF, 98.0% humidity, 0 mph ESE wind, 0.14 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)