Avon,

I'd like to revisit the idea of a homelab echo - I think we might have
enough people here interested to support such a thing.



... Display your talent
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A home lab echo would be great as most of us have a use for a group such as this.

Tom
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: 1>:135/9999 (21:2/153)

On 19 Apr 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

I'd like to revisit the idea of a homelab echo - I think we might have enough people here interested to support such a thing.

I have a small home lab, but I'm not really utilizing it. Other than the BBS VM & a Plex VM it just sits there humming away. I have a Ubiquiti firewall & switch there with separate vlans for the BBS, IoT & the "home" network.

I do have two Ubiquiti APs but they're "only" WiFi 5 (802.11ac), they're disconnected right now since I have two Asus WiFi 6 APs in bridge mode but they don't play well with the vlans.

I thought about upgrading to a 10Gb switch but I don't have anything really to take advantage of that right now, which would mean buying some more (expensive) toys like a 10Gb NAS to play with. My home internet now also supports "up to" 1.5Gb download speeds, but that Ubiquiti router "only" has 1Gb ports, so I'd have to upgrade that if I wanted to take advantage of that extra 500Mb (but do I really "need" it?)

All of this and I'd probably be sleeping on the couch if I spent that kind of money...


Jay

... What do you get from a pampered cow? Spoiled milk

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/03/14 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

I thought about upgrading to a 10Gb switch but I don't have anything really to take advantage of that right now, which would mean buying some more (expensive) toys like a 10Gb NAS to play with. My home internet
now also supports "up to" 1.5Gb download speeds, but that Ubiquiti
router "only" has 1Gb ports, so I'd have to upgrade that if I wanted to take advantage of that extra 500Mb (but do I really "need" it?)

I just upgraded to 10G for my home network (well my servers anyway).

There are a few things to take into consideration if you're thinking of it.

1) Disk speed - 10G maximum speed is around 1250MB/s - SATA spindle disks max out at around 150MB/s, SATA SSD top out around 600MB/s and NVME drives can saturate a 10G link. So if you've only got older PC's without NVME capability the best you can hope for is around 600MB/s with SATA SSDs.

2) You could use a PCI NVME adapter but you might run into problems with PCIEx slots on your motherboard. You must have your 10G card in a x8 slot for full speed, with a video card in your x16 slot you might run out of fast slots for your NVME adapter.

i't's not that expensive for 10G networking gear, I picked up (in $AUD) an 8 port Unifi 10G switch for $400, Intel x520 dual port 10G nic's for $100 ea, I was lucky and found a bulk lot of 20 Intel SFP+ modules brand new for $5 each. I had to fork out for new SFP+ modules for my Unifi switch I think around $60 each (you really need compatible SFP+ modules for your card/switch or you could run into issues). Some 1M/2M/3M multimode OM4 cables for $20-$40 each.

I put two samsung SSD's in each of my machines that don't have NVME drives in a striped raid array and my network runs mostly at 600MB/s.

I do have a use for the speed as I back up my main server to a backup server every night so the extra speed is a blessing. I do transfer large files to and from my main pc and server and what took hours takes no time at all.

But if all you do is browse youtube and send a few emails the cost of 10G really isn't worth it, but if you regularly transfer large files around your network or make large backups it's really handy!

... The only place I want data loss is on my credit card!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: third rock bbs: bbs.thirdrockbbs.au (21:3/179)

Warpslide wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

All of this and I'd probably be sleeping on the couch if I spent that
kind of money...

That's the beauty of a homelab, and of the discussions they bring -- you
could do a homelab on a Pi with a USB stick, or go all the way up to Weatherman's racks full of cores, threads and RAM that I envy.



... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Michael Borthwick wrote to Warpslide <=-

2) You could use a PCI NVME adapter but you might run into problems
with PCIEx slots on your motherboard. You must have your 10G card in a
x8 slot for full speed, with a video card in your x16 slot you might
run out of fast slots for your NVME adapter.

I only have a 1x PCIe adapter free, the 16x adapter is used for my
video card. From what I surmised, 1x wouldn't be much faster (if at
all) than SATA?

My homelab requirements are pretty small - I'm running most of my
workload on an old laptop, and am just now starting to move them over to
a desktop 4 core i7 with 32 GB of RAM and a 1tb NVMe "drive". I'm
running 2x 1GB NICs on the desktop and 2x 1gb NICs on my NAS.

If that doesn't suffice, I'd better be making money with the tech to
offset the cost of upgrading!

I put two samsung SSD's in each of my machines that don't have NVME
drives in a striped raid array and my network runs mostly at 600MB/s.

I do have a use for the speed as I back up my main server to a backup server every night so the extra speed is a blessing. I do transfer
large files to and from my main pc and server and what took hours takes
no time at all.

The good news is that I back up my desktop to my Synology NAS over a GB
link. The bad news is that I was backing them up to a USB external drive connected to the NAS. I moved things around so I back up the desktop to
the SHR array on the NAS, and then back the NAS up to the external - I
don't care how long that takes, as it's virtually invisible to me.

What I really want to do is then sync the NAS to the cloud for offsite
backup, but on cable I only get 20 mbps upload speeds, and the bandwidth
fees would be $100 on top of my regular charges. I'll need to wait until
I move to fiber.




... ZIMA TASTES BETTER WHEN IT'S ILLEGAL
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What I really want to do is then sync the NAS to the cloud for offsite backup, but on cable I only get 20 mbps upload speeds, and the bandwidth fees would be $100 on top of my regular charges. I'll need to wait until
I move to fiber.

That's my next move. I tried one "top" provider but ran into so many problems on their end I canceled my contract after two weeks. I'm still on the hunt for a decent cloud service. I just don't know if I can trust putting my personal documents on their service. I guess I could encrypt my files first and just upload an encrypted version.

... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: third rock bbs: bbs.thirdrockbbs.au (21:3/179)

On 21 Apr 2023, Michael Borthwick said the following...

That's my next move. I tried one "top" provider but ran into so many problems on their end I canceled my contract after two weeks. I'm still
on the hunt for a decent cloud service. I just don't know if I can trust putting my personal documents on their service. I guess I could encrypt
my files first and just upload an encrypted version.

I backup my laptop with a program called Arq that encrypts it and then puts it somewhere. Right now I have it backing up my laptop to the NAS as well as OneDrive where I have 1TB of storage.

I don't backup the NAS itself as that is where I store my backups, so anything on there is already backed or I can get/download again (like media).

This works well for me as my backup needs fit within that 1TB on OneDrive (I'm paying for it, I might as well use it), but this approach wouldn't work for everyone.

I back the BBS up the same way, the BBS directory gets 7zip'ed up and copied to the NAS & a linux utility called onedrive-uploader also copies it up to OneDrive. It would be cool if my NAS supported syncing directories to the cloud automatically.


Jay

... I'd tell rapier jokes but I'm on the fence

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/03/14 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Warpslide wrote to Michael Borthwick <=-

I back the BBS up the same way, the BBS directory gets 7zip'ed up and copied to the NAS & a linux utility called onedrive-uploader also
copies it up to OneDrive. It would be cool if my NAS supported syncing directories to the cloud automatically.

Who makes your NAS? Synology NASes do that - I think they can use both
Blob storage and file storage.

I'd like to set up one of those AWS glacier storage systems where you
pay the least and take the longest time to restore, and have the NAS
back up the backups to it.


... YORGAMAK HAS ARRIVED AND WILL INITIATE DESTRUCTIMATION.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Who makes your NAS? Synology NASes do that - I think they can use both
Blob storage and file storage.

Synology has apps that will backup to anything you want, one drive, s3, dropbox etc.

I'd like to set up one of those AWS glacier storage systems where you
pay the least and take the longest time to restore, and have the NAS
back up the backups to it.

At this point aws has an s3 storage class that will do this for you.
A better bet is Wasabi great cost vs file access charges.

Aws s3 if you need to keep stuff there for years with legal hold time requirements.
Wasabi for home stype stuff where you need to restore with out a high cost of doing so.

Wasabi is run over the same s3 protocol as Aws.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: 21:2/153 (21:2/153)

On 21 Apr 2023, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

Who makes your NAS? Synology NASes do that - I think they can use both Blob storage and file storage.

I have an old Drobo 5N w/ 5x 3.5" 4TB WD Red SATA drives in it.

I've had my eye on Synology for awhile and I would like to upgrade, but this one still works...

One afternoon I found myself drooling over the DS1522+ which has 5 drive bays and I can add 10GbE to it. Then I was looking at a 10 gig switch and trying justify to myself why I "needed" these things. In the end, what I have works, until it doesn't.

I don't seem to have the luck in finding discarded treasures like you have... ;)


Jay

... IPA is what a Canadian says after drinking a bunch

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/03/14 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

poindexter FORTRAN wrote to All <=-

I'd like to revisit the idea of a homelab echo - I think we might have enough people here interested to support such a thing.

If you mean chemistry lab, I may (unfortunately) have some neighbors that
would be interested. ;)



... Spelling is a sober man's game
--- MultiMail/DOS
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Re: Re: Homelab echo
By: Warpslide to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Apr 21 2023 02:23 pm

I don't seem to have the luck in finding discarded treasures like you have... ;)

It's a gift. :)

...Abandon normal instruments
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

On 19 Apr 2023 at 08:46a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

I'd like to revisit the idea of a homelab echo - I think we might have enough people here interested to support such a thing.

Hi there

Can you outline for me what it would be about etc and why you feel the echo would work? I'm a novice in this area so just seeking to understand more about it all... also interested in any others input to this thread too to gauge interest etc.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 19 Apr 2023 at 02:03p, Khronos pondered and said...

A home lab echo would be great as most of us have a use for a group such as this.

Noted, thanks Tom

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Can you outline for me what it would be about etc and why you feel the echo would work? I'm a novice in this area so just seeking to
understand more about it all... also interested in any others input to this thread too to gauge interest etc.

I can give it a try - anyone out there who'd like to contribute/change
this, feel free to chime in.

Most sysops are familiar with running a second PC as a server - we've
had that box in the corner running the BBS for years. What if, when you
wanted to run a 3rd, 4th or more systems at home, you didn't have to
run any additional hardware?

That's part of what homelabbing nowadays is about. Instead of setting up additional hardware, people have started virtualizing their home server environments. Having a virtual environment at home where you can run
multiple virtual servers helps systems administrators to have a home
sandbox to try out systems outside of work, to prepare for tech
certifications, for freelancers to set up test environments/sandboxes,
to sysops wanting to run BBSes and services on modern hardware and to
people looking to automate their homes using Home Assistant, sharing
movies and music with media servers, or playing with old operating
systems and game consoles without needing to set up new hardware.

Over the past few years, the price of entry for hardware has dropped considerably - a Raspberry Pi and serve several virtual servers. An
off-lease used Dell desktop can act as a home lab -- even an older
laptop can serve as a homelab. The number of free virtualization platforms
has increased as well, making it inexpensive to try out a homelab in
your home.

Somewhat related to homelabs are free tiers with cloud providers - you
can start off your Homelab journey using free services from Amazon,
Google or Microsoft, then later integrate services into a homelab, or
keep both connected.

Part of the allure of homelabbing is that you can build out a home lab
with as much power as some small corporate networks, or create a small
lab for a fraction of the cost (or even free!)

Mine started out with a $5 Goodwill router and a $10 "parts only" laptop
with a broken keyboard and scratched screen. It ran the BBS, a Windows
Active Directory test environment and a network-wide ad-blocker, and
shared videos to my Smart TVs.

What you do with a home lab is up to you. There are several people here
running some version of a homelab, and we've been sharing tips in the
echoes for some time. It'd be nice to have a single place for all of the discussions for reference and to facilitate future discussions.

--k


... HACK THE PLANET!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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On 24 Apr 23 08:32:00, Poindexter Fortran said the following to Avon:

That's part of what homelabbing nowadays is about. Instead of setting up additional hardware, people have started virtualizing their home server environments. Having a virtual environment at home where you can run

I don't think I'll ever go back to "real hardware" the night I virtualized the BBS to Vmware EXSI. Now it can live out the rest of its life future-proofed and hardware independant.

The IBM R51 that ran Darkrealms and the Fido Hub for two decades was almost immediately retired. Packed up in a box with other tech memorabilia buried at the bottom of a bedroom walk-in closet.

Atreyu

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)

Hi Poindexter,

On Monday April 24 2023, Poindexter Fortran said to Avon:

Can you outline for me what it would be about etc and why you feel the
echo would work? I'm a novice in this area so just seeking to
understand more about it all... also interested in any others input to
this thread too to gauge interest etc.

I can give it a try - anyone out there who'd like to contribute/change this, feel free to chime in.

Most sysops are familiar with running a second PC as a server - we've
had that box in the corner running the BBS for years. What if, when you wanted to run a 3rd, 4th or more systems at home, you didn't have to
run any additional hardware?

[...]

That was such a great write up. It tells the story of how well virtulation
can help everyone. My homelab server is a Xeon(R) CPU E31240 @ 3.30GHz, with 32gb of ram. It's still on ESXi, with one vm having hardware passthrough.

The server has a total of 7 vm's running, 24/7.



\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/195.5)

On 24 Apr 2023 at 08:32a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Can you outline for me what it would be about etc and why you feel th echo would work? I'm a novice in this area so just seeking to understand more about it all... also interested in any others input t

[snip]

That's part of what homelabbing nowadays is about. Instead of setting up additional hardware, people have started virtualizing their home server environments. Having a virtual environment at home where you can run

[snip]

What you do with a home lab is up to you. There are several people here running some version of a homelab, and we've been sharing tips in the echoes for some time. It'd be nice to have a single place for all of the discussions for reference and to facilitate future discussions.

Thanks poindexter I really appreciate the summary and can see the appeal. I need to get into this as I'm currently a bunch of metal boxes all whirring away in an upstairs 'radio room' that serves up fsxNet NET 1, Total FM (totalfm.nz), the NNTP server (news.bbs.nz), and on it goes..

Could you give some thought (with the input of others here) as to what you think the echoarea tag should be, what the short description / title of the echo should say, and what the longer description wording would be against the echo tag in the fsxnet.txt file?

I'm supportive of creating the echo and seek others feedback on the creation of it also.

Best, Paul

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

<SNIP>

What you do with a home lab is up to you. There are several people here running some version of a homelab, and we've been sharing tips in the echoes for some time. It'd be nice to have a single place for all of the discussions for reference and to facilitate future discussions.

Thanks poindexter I really appreciate the summary and can see the
appeal. I need to get into this as I'm currently a bunch of metal
boxes all whirring away in an upstairs 'radio room' that serves
up fsxNet NET 1, Total FM (totalfm.nz), the NNTP server
(news.bbs.nz), and on it goes..

Could you give some thought (with the input of others here) as to
what you think the echoarea tag should be, what the short
description / title of the echo should say, and what the longer description wording would be against the echo tag in the
fsxnet.txt file?

I'm supportive of creating the echo and seek others feedback on
the creation of it also.

I think it's a great idea for a new echo, and would gladly carry it here
and participate. Thanks to PF for suggesting it.

On a related topic, which has been previously discussed, I also think
there are a few current echos which could be pruned, and perhaps a few
that could be merged/consolidated.

For example, I think that the DIY, Food/cooking, Gardening, and Arts
echos are not really needed; and do we really need seperate echos for
Magicka and Enigma BBS software? They could be covered by the more
general BBS Support/Dev echo.

Cheers!



... Want to meet new people? Pick up the wrong golf ball.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Atreyu wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

I don't think I'll ever go back to "real hardware" the night I
virtualized the BBS to Vmware EXSI. Now it can live out the rest of its life future-proofed and hardware independant.

Between being able to take a live snapshot of the BBS, and migrating it
to another host when I need to do maintenance, I'm sold.

The IBM R51 that ran Darkrealms and the Fido Hub for two decades was almost immediately retired. Packed up in a box with other tech
memorabilia buried at the bottom of a bedroom walk-in closet.

Funny, I have a T60 in a similar box. Can't get myself to e-waste it.



... BETTERING / UNBETTERING
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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On 25 Apr 2023 at 08:19a, Gamgee pondered and said...

I think it's a great idea for a new echo, and would gladly carry it here and participate. Thanks to PF for suggesting it.

Noted thanks :)

On a related topic, which has been previously discussed, I also think there are a few current echos which could be pruned, and perhaps a few that could be merged/consolidated.

Yep thanks, I am doing some work on this at present and will have an announcement in due course.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 25 Apr 23 07:04:00, Poindexter Fortran said the following to Atreyu:

The IBM R51 that ran Darkrealms and the Fido Hub for two decades was almost immediately retired. Packed up in a box with other tech memorabilia buried at the bottom of a bedroom walk-in closet.

Funny, I have a T60 in a similar box. Can't get myself to e-waste it.

When I make my inevitable grand departure from this life and be reincarnated
as a sleazy producer of wonderful 80's B-movie trash, my daughter will likely just toss all of my tech crap to the curb.

Its all tech crap to her, totally nothing of interest or value.

To be fair, I have parents with a zillion things I will never use or have
the space for... or really care to inherit.

Atreyu

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)

poindexter wrote (2023-04-19):

I'd like to revisit the idea of a homelab echo - I think we might have enough people here interested to support such a thing.

Never heard the word homelab in this context before. Is this a new thing? And what is so special about a homelab? It's just computers at home. I guess in a time where everything is in the "cloud" and people use dumb clients (smartphones) all the time someone had to invent a new word for it ;).

(https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/homelab)

Anyway, we have a lot of homelab related discussions already in other areas and a dedicated echo is not a bad idea at all.

⁂

---
* Origin: This site requires JavaScript (21:3/102)

Oli wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Never heard the word homelab in this context before. Is this a new
thing? And what is so special about a homelab? It's just computers at home.

IT people have always had systems running at home, but now the cost of
entry has dropped. You can run Proxmox on desktop hardware to provide
virtualization, Open-WRT and DD-WRT provide pretty amazing router OSes
on commodity hardware, and you can install PFSense for free on a cheap
PC (or as a VM) to get pretty incredible firewall capabilities.


... Repetition is a form of change
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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On 25 Apr 2023 at 07:39p, Avon pondered and said...

Thanks poindexter I really appreciate the summary and can see the
appeal. I need to get into this as I'm currently a bunch of metal boxes all whirring away in an upstairs 'radio room' that serves up fsxNet NET
1, Total FM (totalfm.nz), the NNTP server (news.bbs.nz), and on it goes..

Could you give some thought (with the input of others here) as to what
you think the echoarea tag should be, what the short description / title of the echo should say, and what the longer description wording would be against the echo tag in the fsxnet.txt file?

I'm supportive of creating the echo and seek others feedback on the creation of it also.

Hi there

Just wondering if you have had a chance to ponder this request?

Shall I have a crack at it and share something here so we can confirm I'm on track with a potential echomail description etc.?

Best, Paul

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Homelab echo
By: Avon to poindetxer FORTRAN on Mon May 01 2023 12:48 pm

Could you give some thought (with the input of others here) as to
what you think the echoarea tag should be, what the short
description / title of the echo should say, and what the longer
description wording would be against the echo tag in the fsxnet.txt
file?

Sorry, I missed your request. I'll see what I can come up with. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, that works, too.



--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

On 30 Apr 2023 at 06:50p, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

Sorry, I missed your request. I'll see what I can come up with. If
anyone else wants to take a crack at it, that works, too.

No prob, it doesn't have to be overly long, just model it on the length of what we have against other echos etc.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Homelab echo
By: Avon to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon May 01 2023 04:10 pm



How about this?

FSX_HLAB

Here's a place to discuss running networks and services in your Homelab. A homelab can be as simple as a spare PC or Raspberry Pi running a BBS or media server to a full-blown server environment with a rack, servers, switching and storage. Any and all discussions welcome.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

On 30 Apr 2023 at 10:31p, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

How about this?

FSX_HLAB

Here's a place to discuss running networks and services in your Homelab.
A homelab can be as simple as a spare PC or Raspberry Pi running a BBS
or media server to a full-blown server environment with a rack, servers, switching and storage. Any and all discussions welcome.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32

Thanks :) Reads well. I may tweak things a little.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)