On 04-23-20 05:40, Wolfstag wrote to All <=-
I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
on ocassion would be awesome.
Wolfstag wrote to All <=-
I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
on ocassion would be awesome.
I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
on ocassion would be awesome.
marlow wrote to Wolfstag <=-
On 23 Apr 2020, Wolfstag said the following...
I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
on ocassion would be awesome.
On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet
Radio. I've rebuild it recently and brought it back online after over
20 years of hibernation, but haven't sorted the packet radio end out
yet.
On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet Radio.
Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-
I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it
these days.
alterego wrote to marlow <=-
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: marlow to Wolfstag on Mon Apr 27 2020 06:57 pm
On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet Radio.
I would love to learn how to do this - I think it would be cool.
I'm a long way from being able to do it (and wouldnt know where to
start), but all the same, curious to know what's involved.
It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
...¢E¢*
Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am
(Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)
Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?
But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to
begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.
alterego wrote to calcmandan <=-
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am
Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.
That is a great idea - I fear I wont be able to put aside much time to
do this (now at least).
(Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)
Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?
But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
...¢E¢*
You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?
On 04-28-20 05:49, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-
Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.
On 04-28-20 17:18, alterego wrote to marlow <=-
It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
...ëîå*
On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-
I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it
these days.
On 04-29-20 09:50, alterego wrote to calcmandan <=-
Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?
But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
...ëîå*
On 04-29-20 11:52, vorlon wrote to alterego <=-
To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is required.
The basic setup is:
Radio (2m or 70cm) and Antenna
TNC (1200bps or 9600bps, with 99% being 1200bps) [Think of the TNC as
the modem]
Computer running terminal software or bbs software with the AX25 stack loaded.
In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.
On 04-28-20 21:10, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-
Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?
We could, but I am not sure how effective it would be considering I
only download qwk packets twice a day at most. I'm on IRC far more. But
we can restrict it to an echo.
But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
...¢E¢*
You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: vorlon to alterego on Wed Apr 29 2020 11:52 am
In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and
there are a number of software packages. The most common one
being FBB.
Thank you - very useful...
Do you run a setup? What range are we talking?
My my calc you are about 120klm from me (as the crow flies) - wouldNot without going through a packet repeater, and then the range is
we get such a distance? ...ëîåã
On 04-29-20 11:52, vorlon wrote to alterego <=-
To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is
required.
Is that still true, with Foundation calls now allowed to use
digital modes? However, there is still a technical issue, because
of the 4 letter suffix, which isn't supported by AX.25. Work is
being done on resolving that issue, but hasn't been completed yet.
In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and
there are a number of software packages. The most common obe
being FBB.
I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be itsYour in a better position than I am to be able to do that.
only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good
position. :)
Avon wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 28 Apr 2020 at 09:10p, calcmandan pondered and said...
You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?
Are you based in the USA?
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 04-28-20 21:10, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-
Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?
We could, but I am not sure how effective it would be considering I
only download qwk packets twice a day at most. I'm on IRC far more. But
we can restrict it to an echo.
I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 04-28-20 05:49, calcmandan wrote to alterego <=-
Maybe we can band together on IRC and study together? Take the test and get our licenses.
That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio
and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)
You're in australia. Oh, well that's different isn't it?Yessir
Are you based in the USA?
On 04-29-20 22:20, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that (might*
be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders are not permitted
to use any digital modes.
I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be its
only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good
position. :)
Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.
Vk3jed wrote to vorlon <=-
On 04-29-20 22:20, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that (might*
be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders are not permitted
to use any digital modes.
Well, it has happened and you don't have to go to far to hear them on digital - like DMR. :) Now the issue is working out how to give them 3 letter suffixes, so they can use all digital modes. :)
I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be its
only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in a good
position. :)
Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.
Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)
On 04-29-20 22:20, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Looking on the site Deon posted before it is stated that that
(might* be changing, but atm it's tru that foundation holders
are not permitted to use any digital modes.
Well, it has happened and you don't have to go to far to hear them
on digital - like DMR. :) Now the issue is working out how to give
them 3 letter suffixes, so they can use all digital modes. :)
I could probably seyup a packet BBS here, though it might be
its only user. :) Still, with 44net IP connectivity, I am in
a good position. :)
Your in a better position than I am to be able to do that.
Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS.
:)
On 04-29-20 10:48, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/
Okay, but I'm not sure what you mean.
On 04-29-20 11:07, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio
and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)
Is that a bbs? Which network is the echo on?
By the way, I was perusing telnetbbsguide.com and found a board called emcomm ny and here is their info:
emcommny.synchro.net
A Synchronet BBS linked to amateur radio packet station KC2MHA. Users
of the ham radio functions limited to those with amateur radio
licenses.
The KC2MHA packet radio node can be accessed via the door menu. The kc2mha packet node runs on bpq32 with radio ports on 145.050mhz, 14.105mhz, telnet and axip Internet links. Ham radio packet
connections can also connect via radio to the EMCOMMNY BBS via the BPQ node main menu. You just never know who may be lurking and from where!
On 04-30-20 10:14, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)
I have an interest in the same thing. Do you have a license as well?
On 05-01-20 11:24, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've been out of the loop for what's current for a number of years due
to living location.
I would love to put the DM-700 into the car. The radio and antenna part
is fine, it's a location for the controll head that's the issue.
Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That was always
a issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and IRLP.
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 04-29-20 10:48, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'm happy to help, but can't do that on IRC, because IRC doesn't fit in with the busy online environment (and my ADHD) - I tend to forget it's open. :/
Okay, but I'm not sure what you mean.
In practice it means that once IRC is bruied behind another window, the client unexpectedly quits or the system is rebooted, IRC is promptly forgotten. :/
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 04-30-20 10:14, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Yeah, just have to hook up a radio and install a proper packet BBS. :)
I have an interest in the same thing. Do you have a license as well?
Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)
But in short, yes.
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 04-29-20 11:07, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
That sounds like a good idea. Maybe you need to come over to VKRadio
and get the VK_STUDY echo humming along. ;)
Is that a bbs? Which network is the echo on?
No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering
to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even
wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated
to studying for one's amateur licence.
You can participate on Freeway (freeway.vkradio.com), or grab an
infopack (can be downloaded from the VK_INFO file area) and apply to
join. I currently offer FTN (binkp officially, but also FTP is unofficially available) and QWK feeds. Freeway also accepts anonymous
HTTP and FTP if you want to download the infopack without creating an account.
Interesting sounding system. I haven't yet linked mine to packet, but it's technically feasible, once I add a radio to my packet node. :)
Are you based in the USA?
Yessir
No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering
to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated to studying for one's amateur licence.
On 05-01-20 11:24, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've been out of the loop for what's current for a number of
years due to living location.
The change was made earlier this year. :)
I would love to put the DM-700 into the car. The radio and
antenna part is fine, it's a location for the controll head
that's the issue.
That can be a challenge. :/
Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That
was always a issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and
IRLP.
I'd have a lot of doubts about the kernel AX.25, but you can always
On 05-01-20 10:25, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
In practice it means that once IRC is bruied behind another window, the client unexpectedly quits or the system is rebooted, IRC is promptly forgotten. :/
OIC. Okay.
On 05-01-20 10:52, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)
But in short, yes.
Yeah now that you say that, it does. I'm very unfamiliar with all of it with bits of details absorbed by osmosis.
On 05-01-20 10:59, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The bbs I connect to doesn't have that echo. Should I ask my sysop to connect? Or would you rather I join your board?
I was on mumble with digital man and he said they have vertrauen, I
think he did at least, connected as well. He seemed to think that alot
of effort goes into making packet radio happen for one minor feature. I understand where he's coming from, but to me, the thought of sending messages via radio is quite interesting. Not like the military and government don't do the very thing anyway.
Now, I've seen demos of packet radio and it appears to only be designed for quick messages. I wonder if the limitations are defined by FCC
rules. I'm aware the connection is quite slow but how hard it would be
to implement stuff like qwk packet transfers or email to the
capabilities. It's all rather small.
On 05-02-20 15:17, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 01 May 2020 at 09:24a, Vk3jed pondered and said...
No it's an echo, which is part of my net, VKRadio. It's a net catering
to radio enthusiasts of any kind - amateur, CB, scanners, SDR, even wifi and LoRa tinkering is all on topic. VK_STUDY is an echo dedicated to studying for one's amateur licence.
..and equally you're more than welcome to keep chatting here :)
On 05-02-20 14:25, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The change was made earlier this year. :)
oh ok.
Yeh, modern cars don't make it easy to mount extra gear. #0(
Does AX25 work with the current kenerl's and distro's? That
was always a issue past 2.4 when I was running the BBS and
IRLP.
I'd have a lot of doubts about the kernel AX.25, but you can always
Back when I was doing ax25, those options hadn't become stable
enough, and I wasn't happy with the way they worked.
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 05-01-20 10:52, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Umm, my handle here should be a dead giveaway to that question. ;)
But in short, yes.
Yeah now that you say that, it does. I'm very unfamiliar with all of it with bits of details absorbed by osmosis.
Cool, that's a good starting point. :) Now to get you up to speed and ready to sit the exam. :)
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 05-01-20 10:59, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
The bbs I connect to doesn't have that echo. Should I ask my sysop to connect? Or would you rather I join your board?
I'm easy, it's up to you and your sysop as to which way you'd prefer. WHatever works for you.
These days, I'm more likely to use Winlink, which can use radio to send email. I have sent email from the outback using HF radio, with a
600-700km path to the mail gateway
The AX.25 protocol used by packet is roughly analogous to Ethernet for wired networks - not perfectly, because AX.25 does have the concept of digipeaters, which aren't in any other link layer protocol, and it also has other higher (transport) level functions like connected mode. When running IP over packet, the connected mode is not recommended, because
it can interfere with TCP's own timeouts.
But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That
said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some
local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has
become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to
do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.
Avon wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 29 Apr 2020 at 10:42a, calcmandan pondered and said...
Are you based in the USA?
Yessir
Coolio.
The it's the ARRL that you'll want as a starting point for licensing
info and training resources. Over here our New Zealand equivalent is
the NZART and their study guide info can be found at https://www.nzart.org.nz/learn/study-guides
On 05-02-20 10:34, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I joined your board yesterday and dug around a bit. It was still my workday so I didn't stay long.
On 05-02-20 10:43, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
It doesn't matter, I joined your board yesterday. I'm not going to bug him.
These days, I'm more likely to use Winlink, which can use radio to send email. I have sent email from the outback using HF radio, with a
600-700km path to the mail gateway
Sounds like winlink would require windows or at least a windows VM to
make work. I think it's sick that you managed to send/receive email
using radio from such a distance. That is soooo awesome.
Since I posted this I've seen a winlink demo on computerphile's youtube channel. The demo showed the fetching of a basic html page and a few
other features. There were timeouts, as you said, with tcp. It would be interesting to pursue this
But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That
said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some
local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has
become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to
do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.
I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a
habit to log into your board more often.
On 05-02-20 11:10, calcmandan wrote to Avon <=-
Yeah I've been listening to the ARRL weekly podcast now a few months.
One of my best friends has been a HAM for thirty some odd years now and he's so hardcore about it that he refuses to do anything but morse. I'm like pffff.
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
Sure it wasn't IP packet? Winlink AFAIK is for email, unless there's
been protocol extensions. It doesn't run IP or anything Internet compatible. The Winlink messages are converted to email within the Winlink infrastructure.
But most packet activity uses AX.25 on its own for simplicity. That
said, my packet configuration does support IP. There has been some
local interest in playing with packet, so getting packet on air has
become a high priority for me, because I'm the best equipped in town to
do it - I have it 90% setup (radio and some details left to go) and the dedicated amateur IP allocation.
I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a
habit to log into your board more often.
Yeah, cool. I'm rehashing old ground (for me) a bit, but with new software and hardware (on a R-Pi), and I'm actually running the gateway this time, instead of being an RF only node.
And as I hinted at, the change has created an issue in that the
VKnFxxx callsigns don't fit into the address headers of some
protocols. Some examples I know of:
Yeh, modern cars don't make it easy to mount extra gear. #0(
Yeah, I'll probably have to cross that bridge in a few years when I
update my car. :/ I might consider just getting the pros to do it
next time.
and tell LinBPQ what addresses are on RF. Currently, I have 2 on
test, though without a radio, all that ping does is flash the Tx
LED on the TNC-Pi. :D
1. Get to me on 2m - highly unlikely; or
2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh tunneling.
Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses over the
tunnels.
On 05-03-20 17:43, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
Sure it wasn't IP packet? Winlink AFAIK is for email, unless there's
been protocol extensions. It doesn't run IP or anything Internet compatible. The Winlink messages are converted to email within the Winlink infrastructure.
I'm not sure at all.
I'll definitely keep up with it.
I would really like to keep up with your activities so I'll make a
habit to log into your board more often.
Yeah, cool. I'm rehashing old ground (for me) a bit, but with new software and hardware (on a R-Pi), and I'm actually running the gateway this time, instead of being an RF only node.
I have tons to learn.
On 05-04-20 11:02, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
When the foundation license was created they wouldn't have thought that access to digital (Packet) modes was something that they should use.
It was meant to be just a entry level into the hobbie. What the acma should have done is something like when I got my call sign and use(d) a unused suffix.
But then a VKnF was a clear way to show it was a foundation ham.
I've been thinking about going to the guys that did the setup in the
old car (a ford courier ute), and see what they can do. I'd love to be back on the air again.
and tell LinBPQ what addresses are on RF. Currently, I have 2 on
test, though without a radio, all that ping does is flash the Tx
LED on the TNC-Pi. :D
At least it's not a midnight flasher #-)
I was on a site the other day with a TNC for the pi, and they now have
a 9600bps version. The pi has really made a huge inroads to hobbie
setups. If only they would make a version with a second Nic, and a sata port.
1. Get to me on 2m - highly unlikely; or
2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh tunneling.
Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses over the
tunnels.
I've been on the 44-ip mailing list for many yearsb %-)
2. Get a block of 44.136.x.x IPs and set up IP-IP mesh
tunneling. Then you'll be able to directly access my addresses
over the tunnels.
I've been on the 44-ip mailing list for many yearsb %-)
Do you have 44.x IPs?
On 05-05-20 15:02, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Do you have 44.x IPs?
No not at this time. I was planning on doing things, but then the sh*t
hit the fan with the X and a lot of life changes have gone through
since.
On 05-05-20 15:02, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Do you have 44.x IPs?
No not at this time. I was planning on doing things, but then
the sh*t hit the fan with the X and a lot of life changes have
gone through since.
Ahh, OK. well you could at least get the IPs up and we can try communicating with each other. :)
On 05-06-20 10:36, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Ahh, OK. well you could at least get the IPs up and we can try communicating with each other. :)
As the old saying goes "Whatch this space"! &-=)
That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D
On 05-07-20 20:32, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 02 May 2020 at 03:30p, Vk3jed pondered and said...
That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D
Shall we work on something for this echo. I see merit in that, You?
Vk3jed wrote to Avon <=-
On 05-07-20 20:32, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 02 May 2020 at 03:30p, Vk3jed pondered and said...
That too. We need some inter-network echo gating. :D
Shall we work on something for this echo. I see merit in that, You?
Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how
to do it. :)
... If Pro is the opposite of Con then what is the opposite of
Progress?
On 05-07-20 22:49, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how
to do it. :)
Going by this conversation, you're looking for a way to connect packet radio so that one could read and respond to echoes?
... If Pro is the opposite of Con then what is the opposite of
Progress?
I love this quote.
Vk3jed wrote to calcmandan <=-
On 05-07-20 22:49, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Sure, I could hook it up with an echo on VKRadio, once we work out how
to do it. :)
Going by this conversation, you're looking for a way to connect packet radio so that one could read and respond to echoes?
No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software,
but my last attempt at searching found nothing.
No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.
On 05-09-20 07:58, calcmandan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.
So interesting. I will be asking for a radio when xmas comes around. In the meantime I'll be getting my license.
No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software,
but my last attempt at searching found nothing.
No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.
On 05-08-20 13:28, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Hello Vk3jed,
No, that's a different project, for which there used to be software,
but my last attempt at searching found nothing.
No, our goal is simpler just to get the echo between 2 FTNs.
I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets
anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and
it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.
anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole an it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.
Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.
I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets
anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and
it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.
Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.
On 05-11-20 15:03, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 10 May 2020 at 12:46p, Vk3jed pondered and said...
anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole an it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.
Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.
sounds good to me - thanks guys :)
On 05-10-20 21:17, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I did this years ago between 2 FTN nets. I don't remember the nets
anymore or why we did this but I used a software called black hole and
it did what we wanted to do for a year or so.
Cool, will have to look into that. Will it run under Linux? My end is 100% Linux. Paul does have Windows, if that's needed, or if it's DOS, there's always DOSBox, Qemu, etc.
I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS version. There are no other versions that I know of.
I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS
version. There are no other versions that I know of.
I'm sure I'd be able to get a DOS version running. But finding it is the tricky part. Any leads there?
Only "Black Hole" I've found was a netmail processor and seemed a bit
like NetMgr, which I used years ago to manioukate netmail. The documentation I read suggested Black Hole works on netmail, not
echomail, as far as I could tell. Anyone else here have leads on gating echomail between FTNs?
On 05-11-20 11:58, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was running the OS/2 version at the time and there was also a DOS
version. There are no other versions that I know of.
I'm sure I'd be able to get a DOS version running. But finding it is the tricky part. Any leads there?
I did keep these files around at one time but I don't see anything like that now. The archives were called BH*.ZIP, I'll see what I can dig
up..
On 05-12-20 19:26, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Let's think this through. We would share and echo tag I guess? We would ideally need to avoid using the same NET/NODE combos also else risk
false positives between Zones?
But if there is a legacy gateway tool that would handle such things
then that could work too.
I'll need some time to look into that.
Thanks, yeah I didn't have any luck when I tried. :/
i do remember the archive was named BHxxxxxx where the x's were
numbers...
Yes, that's it. I'm hoping it'll turn up in a search of one of these archives. I am asking on Tony Langdon's behalf. He wants to do this
(he's
thinking about it anyway) in one of his nets. If you happen to have a
copy
there that would be great.. :)
ftp://sestar.synchro.net/main/FIDO-GEN/bh101b07.arj
bh101b07.arj 75k Dec 31, 1991 00:55 =============================================
BlackHole is an inter-domain EchoMail gating
utility for FidoNet(R) technology based
networks (FTN's). It will NOT gate between
different zones in the same domain, nor
between FidoNet(R) systems and/or other
technologies such as UUCP.
On 05-12-20 11:03, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Hello Vk3jed,
Thanks, yeah I didn't have any luck when I tried. :/
Your luck has changed.. :)
I posted a search in FILEFIND and I got this reply from mark lewis.
ftp://sestar.synchro.net/main/FIDO-GEN/bh101b07.arj
bh101b07.arj 75k Dec 31, 1991 00:55 =============================================
BlackHole is an inter-domain EchoMail gating
utility for FidoNet(R) technology based
networks (FTN's). It will NOT gate between
different zones in the same domain, nor
between FidoNet(R) systems and/or other
technologies such as UUCP.
That's the DOS version, so I hope it'll work for you.. :)
I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna give
it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bother
on ocassion would be awesome.
Lee
KN4TGK
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/03/02 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Dragonstalon BBS (21:2/164)
On 04-23-20 05:40, Wolfstag wrote to All <=-
I was wondering if any is doing packet radio anymore, kinda wanna giv it a try and google is good but someone with experience I could bothe on ocassion would be awesome.
On my todo list. I have a gateway setup, except it needs a radio. :)
... 10.0 times 0.10 is hardly ever 1.00.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
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Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: marlow to Wolfstag on Mon Apr 27 2020 06:57 pm
On my TODO list. My BBS used to be contactable via Modem and Packet R
I would love to learn how to do this - I think it would be cool.
I'm a long way from being able to do it (and wouldnt know where to
start), but all the same, curious to know what's involved.
It would also be great to be able to have long distance folks connect - while Spectre is a few klms down the road - the next closest person is about 130klm away... :(
...ëîåã
... He used to be fairly indecisive, but now he's not so certain.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: calcmandan to alterego on Tue Apr 28 2020 05:49 am
(Work is keeping me busy, and when it is not, my kids are.)
Why dont we do it here - and perhaps we could drag a few more in?
But, step #1 is to learn what I need to learn. For me it seems to begin here: https://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
To operate Packet (ax25) in Australia a "Standard" license is required.
The basic setup is:
Radio (2m or 70cm) and Antenna
TNC (1200bps or 9600bps, with 99% being 1200bps) [Think of the TNC as the modem]
Computer running terminal software or bbs software with the AX25 stack loaded.
In the packet world the bbs software is 100% txt based, and there are a number of software packages. The most common obe being FBB.
\/orlon
--- MagickaBBS v0.14alpha (Linux/armv6l)
* Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-
I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these days.
Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive
comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll
be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-
I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these days.
Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive
comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll
be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.
... Cats don't criticize your friends
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
I'm very knowledgeable in this area. Imagine us seting up hub traffic over the HF links, now that would be awesome and is extremely easy. Believe it or not it's no different than what we are doing with IP, Packet Radio uses X.25 instead of IP, and it's natively suported by linux.
On 06-16-20 12:52, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I should probably work my way backwards on these messages :) What gateway are you using Vk3jed? On your gateway are you basically
typing "bbs" to forward to the BBS?
My vision is to create a "Packet Radio" theme in mystic that is ASCII only, all graphics are removed, login at bbs is just "username and password" and the menu prompts are "quick menu". User would have to manually request to see the full menu over packet manually.
Also it would be interesting to allow the user to enable and disable
which command prompts he/she would like to see in the future.
I'm excited to see 3 Amatuers already since pulling down the additional mail, this is really exciting, my fsxNet Ham Radio mailbox has been
empty since I joined :)
On 06-16-20 13:21, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
APRS is widely used in the US, however Packet is still widely used.
What's happened with Packet is that all the original hams are gone and
the packet infrastructure that was running on Kantronics TNC's, for example, have also failed. The talent that use to maintain them is
also gone so there is no one to pick up the slack.
If we all did our part to put up packet nodes on the existing VHF/UHF frequencies we could keep it alive and well and leverage all the
existing packet nodes that haven't dismantled, as well as offer a whole new breed of messaging capabilities via BBS that never existed
previously.
On 06-16-20 13:24, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What TNC hardware are you using that supports IPv4?
I know the TNC-X is a very good open source product that has the
ability to stack RS-232 interfaces on top, so you can have one device
with UHF, VHF and HF all in one.
I'm curious to know what else is out there now, TNC-X is a few years
old now.
On 06-16-20 13:05, dejavu wrote to vorlon <=-
Hey vorion,
Exactly. 2m VHF 1200bps, and 70cm UHF at 9600bps, which 9600 is pretty darn fast for text only traffic!
Now add HF for the fsxNet mail transfer and Netmail and the BBS and
mail functionality will still work when the grid is down :)
I already saw two people completely capable of doing this, what's
really holding this back? I'm ready to jump in and make it happen!
On 06-17-20 08:48, alterego wrote to dejavu <=-
That said, I look forward to learning how its done. I did start playing with AX25 on linux, to see if I could get some packet stuff going over
IP - that might be start?
Perhaps if I could get a radio link going between the front of the
house and back (to get my skills up).
Ahh so many ideas but time is the enemy.. :(
On 06-16-20 12:52, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I should probably work my way backwards on these messages :) What gateway are you using Vk3jed? On your gateway are you basically typing "bbs" to forward to the BBS?
I have LinBPQ setup for packet services, and another system links it to the 44.x IPIP mesh.
My vision is to create a "Packet Radio" theme in mystic that is ASCII only, all graphics are removed, login at bbs is just "username and Vk>
manually request to see the full menu over packet manually. Vk>
Cool, sounds much like what a packet BBS has. Will be interesting to
see how Mystic goes at it.
Also it would be interesting to allow the user to enable and disable which command prompts he/she would like to see in the future.
I'm excited to see 3 Amatuers already since pulling down the addition mail, this is really exciting, my fsxNet Ham Radio mailbox has been empty since I joined :)
Cool. Well, here in FSX_HAM, this can be discussed across 2 networks!
It is linked to VK_HAMNET on VKRadio. :)
... The best way to make a long story short is to stop listening.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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On 06-16-20 13:24, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
What TNC hardware are you using that supports IPv4?
Any TNC that supports KISS will do the job. :)
I know the TNC-X is a very good open source product that has the ability to stack RS-232 interfaces on top, so you can have one device with UHF, VHF and HF all in one.
TNC-X supports KISS (that's all it supports!), so it will work. All of the IP networking software supports KISS TNCs, though that's not the
only option. There's also software TNCs and various hardware cards that have come and gone.
I'm curious to know what else is out there now, TNC-X is a few years old now.
The original TNC-X site is no more, but MFJ now builds and sells the design.
My own setup uses a TNC-Pi, which is basically a TNC-X style board that fits on the Pi as a shield.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)
dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On 29 Apr 2020, Vk3jed said the following...
On 04-28-20 06:11, Wolfstag wrote to calcmandan <=-
I am licensed, still reseaching what to get and are people using it these days.
Packet is mainly used for APRS these days, rather than interactive
comms. However, I am partway through setting up a packet hub. And I'll
be able to support IP(v4), as well as plain AX.25.
APRS is widely used in the US, however Packet is still widely used.
What's happened with Packet is that all the original hams are gone and
the packet infrastructure that was running on Kantronics TNC's, for example, have also failed. The talent that use to maintain them is
also gone so there is no one to pick up the slack.
If we all did our part to put up packet nodes on the existing VHF/UHF frequencies we could keep it alive and well and leverage all the
existing packet nodes that haven't dismantled, as well as offer a whole new breed of messaging capabilities via BBS that never existed
previously.
On 06-17-20 08:12, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Cool. I've experimented with BPQ, not sure if it's the same as LinBPQ
and it worked for me, however I don't recall why I stopped using it.
I'm going to circle back to it this week and check it out again and try
to remember what the trouble was that I encountered.
I've seen the 44.x address space, however I have no experience with it. Can you explain the purpose of the 44.x address space at a high level
and share a use case or two for it?
In my experience with "Packet", "Pactor modes" or "APRS" I haven't seen
an actual use case for the 44.x address space.
Cool. Well, here in FSX_HAM, this can be discussed across 2 networks!
It is linked to VK_HAMNET on VKRadio. :)
Cool!
On 06-17-20 08:36, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I believe where I had left off last on building a packet interface was
to use the TNC-Pi, however I never ordered one. If I can remember back
in memory that far I believe it was because they were on the brink of releasing a 9600 version at that time and I was holding out. Does
that sound about right for the TNC-Pi?
I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I find them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using
software versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I've tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.
If someone handed you a couple Kantronics KAM-XL and SCS Pactor III
units and a TNC-PI, which unit would you prefer to use for BPQ for a packet interface into Mystic, and if possible, some use cases for the TNC-PI over a traditional hardware TNC?
The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III units.
I see one justification with the TNC-PI is that it has, at least from memory a 9600 baud interface. That would be one advantage that I can
see for 9600 UHF user connections.
Nothing else is coming to mind, other than open source... However I'm extremely rusty on the topic and I don't own a TNC-PI, at least I don't believe I have one, LOL :)
On 06-17-20 08:36, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I believe where I had left off last on building a packet interface wa to use the TNC-Pi, however I never ordered one. If I can remember ba in memory that far I believe it was because they were on the brink of releasing a 9600 version at that time and I was holding out. Does that sound about right for the TNC-Pi?
I think there was, but the TNC-Pi is no more now. :( I'm glad I got one while I could. :)
I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I finsoftware versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I'v Vk> tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.
them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using Vk>
I could never affoed the Kantronics TNCs, but they were the bees knees.
If someone handed you a couple Kantronics KAM-XL and SCS Pactor III units and a TNC-PI, which unit would you prefer to use for BPQ for a packet interface into Mystic, and if possible, some use cases for the TNC-PI over a traditional hardware TNC?
Hmm, a mixed bag there. The Pactor unit would be a no brainer for Winlink. The TNC-Pi, if you wanted to save space, and the Kantronics for reliability and performance, though it's probably overkill. :) And another option is a software TNC like Direwolf, which is said to offer excellent (possibly better than hardware) performance.
9600 baud interface. That would be one advantage that I can Vk> de> see for 9600 UHF user connections. Vk>The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III unit I see one justification with the TNC-PI is that it has, at least from memory a
I don't know if 9600 ever eventuated.
Vk> de> Nothing else is coming to mind, other than open source...However I'm Vk> de> extremely rusty on the topic and I don't own a TNC-PI, at least I don Vk> de> believe I have one, LOL :)
I do, just have to hook it up to the radio sitting next to it!. :D Got
so many projects happening now. Just got AllStar working, and now it
can connect to my existing tlb based system. I added SvxLink for voting and SDR inputs last week. :)
... The only thing wrong with immortality is that it tends to go on forever. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
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On 06-19-20 12:25, dejavu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I'll keep my eyes open on the used market for a TNC-Pi, just to see
what I missed out on...
I have quite a few Kantronics TNC's, including the KAM-XL, etc, I fin them fantastic for stability and running in KISS mode and using Vk>software versus their built in OS, such as APRS. I don't believe I'v Vk> tried to use BPQ with the Kam XL.
I could never affoed the Kantronics TNCs, but they were the bees knees.
I bought them recently on the used market, so prices are what you would pay for a TNC-Pi, as an example, however yes back in the day they were very expensive.
This is where things get a bit cloudy. I have all of these devices, I
use the SCS for Pactor III on Winlink, however I'm band limited to 10
meters, since I haven't had the time to study to upgrade to General. I keep failing the General practice exams, and it's a struggle between
other studying, family life, attempting to setup a BBS, and at least
100 other projects. You know how it is. The studying for the General just isn't on my top priority list right now and I'm starting to see
it's more of a thing when I retire I'll be able to get to it, or at
least I keep telling myself that.
When we talk about implementing packet integration into Mystic for
example I'm looking to use the best tool for the job. I prefer
hardware devices such as Kantronics, AEA, SCS, and most likely would
like the TNC-X and the PI-TNC over the name brand vintage TNC's for the ability of customization, one thing I know is the built in "JunOS" type BBS on the Kantronic's doesn't allow any customization, at least not without customizing the ROM.
I'm going to research and purchase the additional addons to setup the
PI TNC and experiment with it, something tells me I already went down
this path and probably have it toss in a drawer or box somewhere. Way
too many projects and not enough time.
The KAM-XL has VHF and HF support, as well as the SCS Pactor III unit
Kenwood's TNC support 9600 baud natively, and there were 9600 baud UHF packet stations on Packet systems in the Virginia/Washington
DC/Maryland area a couple years back used for user access. I don't
know the current status, however I do want to get one on the air, I believe not having a tower is what I've let this hold me back. I
might just climb up in a tree and screw a j-pole in as high as I can
get :) That is the amateur way :)
I had Allstar at one point with the external parallel interface I
believe it was, that project is benched and in a box somewhere for
sure. I replaced it with D-Star, P25, Fusion, everything except DMR.
SvxLink is ringing a bell, I believe that was the linux port of Echolink?
I'll keep my eyes open on the used market for a TNC-Pi, just to see what
I missed out on...
On 06-25-20 14:52, tenser wrote to dejavu <=-
I bought a TNC-Pi kit and built it, but honestly, found that
a software modem (direwolf, in my case) worked better and more
reliably. Direwolf will run something like 7 decoders in parallel
and deduplicate the results; it will also apply some heuristics
to try and recover from 1- and 2-bit errors, use heuristics based
on known parts of packets, etc. I've found it's superior at
demodulating more packets relative to a hardware TNC.
Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.
73
Scott
VE3CGN
On 01-05-21 00:03, SetiOp wrote to All <=-
Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.
Avon wrote to SetiOp <=-
A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.
A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.
Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?
On 01-05-21 06:35, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Thanks for the reply! I loved the BBS I had back in the day running
FBB. I was planning on moving to a Linux-based platform but it never happened. My biggest problem getting packet running here has been
antenna height, I need to put up a good digipeater before I can do much else to attract users. Sounds like an interesting project. I would be interested to see what you put together. :)
Avon wrote to Blue White <=-
On 05 Jan 2021 at 01:13p, Blue White pondered and said...
A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air and accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.
Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?
If you're asking about sending echomail over radio, then I would say
yes, given that the packet radio gear needs to be run by a licensed amateur radio operator. The frequencies you can use will also vary
between countries somewhat.
A future hope of mine is to try and get my Mystic BBS on the air accessible via packet and TCP/IP connection.
Do you have to be a HAM in order to make your BBS accessible in this manner?
If you're asking about sending echomail over radio, then I would say yes, given that the packet radio gear needs to be run by a licensed amateur radio operator. The frequencies you can use will also vary between countries somewhat.
Actually I meant allowing it to be accessed by hams via packet / TCP/IP. Of course, I guess once they log on I would be broadcasting, so that may have answered my question. :)
Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.
Hi Tenser, sorry for the delay replying, I had issues with upgrading the BBS here, which I hope are now sorted out. I used to have AMPR address space many years ago and was looking to set something up again a few
years ago but there was very little interest in what I was trying to do.
I am interested in seeing what you can put together!
It sounds like you have been busy! I really need to look into AMPRNet again and check out the links you sent (thanks for that!). It sounds
like a lot of fun for sure. Now that I have the BBS back up, I want to
do some kind of gateways into different networks/machines as well. I am not sure how successful I will be getting my ISP to route a subnet to
me, but maybe.
It has been a long while since I did that kind of stuff
myself, so I would be learning it all over again. Great to hear packet
and ham radio alive and well in your area. :)
On 01-10-21 04:41, tenser wrote to SetiOp <=-
Personally, I think every Ham should grab an AMPRNet allocation:
either we use that space or we lose it. The sale of the /10 to
Amazon a couple of years ago was a huge boon for the community,
in that it gave ARDC a pile of money that it could use for grants
etc, but ironically also shows that we're underutilizing our
available resources. Using an HT to call into the local FM
repeater is great and all, but not really all that interesting.
I did get my stuff working again, and I updated my 44net routing
software (my router runs OpenBSD, sadly, so the stock solutions
for Linux didn't work for me) and wrote up instructions on the
AMPRNet portal:
https://github.com/dancrossnyc/44ripd https://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_OpenBSD
I have a timesharing host on my subnet (finger @kz2x.ampr.org
to see if anyone is logged in...). I also have a RockPi4
(quad-core aarch64 with 4GiB of RAM, an NVMe SSD, and a real
ethernet PHY/MAC, not a USB bridge) running Raspbian that
connects to a 2m rig through a Tigertronics Signalink USB
soundcard. The RockPi runs direwolf, and what I'd like to do
now is configure ax25d so that connection to some AX.25 SSID
will automatically telnet to the timesharing machine (that
part could be SSH, since it doesn't go over the air, but who
cares?), then someone can use `axcall` or another AX.25
terminal to connect into my Unix machine and have access to
AMPRNet. This should be easy, except that, ironically, line
endings are causing problems. I'll probably hack up `axspawn`
to make it run telnet instead of invoking a shell.
On 09 Jan 2021 at 12:39p, SetiOp pondered and said...
The cool thing about AMPRNet is that you don't need to your
ISP to route anything to you; you can do it all over tunnels.
That's what 44ripd does; it reads AMPR RIP packets and sets
up subnet tunnels and routes. Definitely check it out!
The cool thing about AMPRNet is that you don't need to your
ISP to route anything to you; you can do it all over tunnels.
That's what 44ripd does; it reads AMPR RIP packets and sets
Indeed, it's exciting; I just got things hooked up so I can
gateway to 'telnet' to my Unix host when connecting into my
packet computer via AX.25, which is kind of cool. Sadly,
there doesn't seem to be a loopback interface for AX.25, so
to test it I connected to a local digipeater and then back
to myself. That works but is imperfect. Oddly, when running
a command that emits lots of text, I've found some goes missing;
I suspect I'm writing more text than will fit in a single
AX.25 packet; perhaps I'll pay with MTUs.
On 01-14-21 14:42, lu8fjh wrote to Vk3jed <=-
In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.
I have F6FBB via radio and internet telnet lu8fjh.dyndns.org:6300 lu8fjh.dyndns.org:3694 Uronode Netrom tcpip Node
Two system acces via my Mystic bbs lu8fjh.dyndns.org
In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.
In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet and RF.
I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time. I am happy
to see that people are still using it and I might be able send traffic
to others via RF. I am still deciding what to set up here, but I am looking forward to having something on the air.
But we've got to get folks interested first. That's the hard part.
On 19 Jan 2021 at 05:44p, SetiOp pondered and said...
[...]In Argentina have many BBS in packet radio via intenet
So it's an odd thing. Having recently gone through the hassle
of setting up a packet station _and_ an AMPRNet subnet, I've
got some thoughts.
I would love to get data flowing over the air - with no ongoing costs to
a 3rd party, even if it was a slow speed. Building out (or optimising) a protocol to support this slow speed would be fun...
communications. It's a pity modems and copper cables have gone / are goingthe way of the dodo.
I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time.
I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Canada again.
On 19 Jan 2021, SetiOp said the following...
I wish I could find out how to get people interested in it here in Ca again. We had quite a good network in our area at one time.
That's the trouble with a lot of amateur radio, and really some of the trouble I see with some of the people who think they're going to start
a revival with their novel BBS.
The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to try to have a successful contact.
There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore... Other systems like winlink or olivia do it much better. And there isn't any sort of pushing the envelop of technology with it either, like there is with things like mesh.
As my elmer said to me, "You missed the boat by about twenty-five
years." I wish it weren't true, and I'll probably try to set something
up for the Milwaukee metro area this year, but I know it's all in vain.
But I think there's room for experimentation with data
and digital modes. Things like NPR ("New Packet Radio")
lot more sense) much of the argument is against the proposal
and much of the reason for that are septuagenarians and
older mad about PACTOR III. "What's wrong with AX.25?!"
We still have copper cables here in the UK! Most of the time, it feels like we're still in the dark ages with connectivity, internet and communications etc.
the speed can be
at least 2400 bps, I think any slower than that, it would need to be a different theme entirely, just plain ascii or something and very cut
down.
On 01-20-21 14:27, tenser wrote to SetiOp <=-
First, packet. So an initial observation is that the thrill of
packet for _most_ users just isn't going to be there. What does
it really offer? The ability to send email and exchange files?
At the whopping speed of 1200 BAUD? Yeah, that's just not that
cool. Digital modes like FT8 and FT4 at least let you earn awards
and work DX; but packet is just like talking on the local repeater:
no one is going to get a certificate to hang on one's wall for it.
So the remaining uses end up being special-purpose, like traffic
handling. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's be
honest: if you're not a traffic handler, you're unlikely to find
it particularly interesting. C'est la vie; the heaviest use of
my local repeaters seems to be the nightly traffic nets. Hmm.
Another issue is that the node software has bitrotted to the point
of often not working. I've fixed lots of bugs in mine; it now
"works", to a point, but is disappointingly fragile. It's clear
that that code hasn't gotten a lot of love in the modern era.
AMPRNet is more interesting, but what do people want to run on it? Standard Internet services, just over an RF circuit? Well, that's
cool, I guess. I set up a Unix machine as a timesharing "host"
on my AMPRNet subnet, and wrote a routing daemon, and documented
What we really need, I think, to make data on amateur radio really interesting, is an embrace of the new. Something like IPv6 over a
better link-layer protocol (perhaps 6LoWPAN?) and then things like
HamWan and the BBHN stuff (which seems to have basically shut down).
Then we can start to do some cool stuff.
But we've got to get folks interested first. That's the hard part.
My ideal would be (as part of a wider plan of communications resilience) to have bbs FTN running over RF packet as a wider option for people to connect should TCP/IP over 'mainstream' internet channels be taken down due to act of god or man etc..
practice exams before I feel I'm ready. One of these days I'll be VE3<something> and be able to press talk on this handy talky that I have...
The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to
There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore...
First, packet. So an initial observation is that the thrill of
packet for _most_ users just isn't going to be there. What does
So the remaining uses end up being special-purpose, like traffic
handling. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that, but let's be
AMPRNet is more interesting, but what do people want to run on it?
Which goes back to the point of bugs and such in the software we're
all using on e.g. AX.25. Arguably all of that should be rewritten
in a modern, type- and memory-safe language, but then one wonders,
What we really need, I think, to make data on amateur radio really interesting, is an embrace of the new. Something like IPv6 over a
On 01-22-21 03:48, JF wrote to Avon <=-
Amen! I'm very interested in this, and I've been pondering about it for
a while. What I imagine is something equivalent to how BBS used to
work: mail would be transferred from BBS to BBS over the phone lines,
from point to point, in such a way as to avoid any long distance
charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from one VHF station to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't
necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail could
be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in
place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet,
phone, HF, VHF, etc.).
Amen! I'm very interested in this, and I've been pondering about it for a while. What I imagine is something equivalent to how BBS used to work: mail would be transferred from BBS to BBS over the phone lines, from
point to point, in such a way as to avoid any long distance charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from one VHF station
to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail could be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet, phone, HF, VHF, etc.).
like AREDN, AMPRNET and HF ALE; I don't know much about them, but I
think some of them can provide you with IP connectivity. So yes, below
But I think there's room for experimentation with data
and digital modes. Things like NPR ("New Packet Radio")
Hadn't heard of it before now, but it looks pretty fascinating. A hell
of a lot more interesting then AX.25.
lot more sense) much of the argument is against the proposal
and much of the reason for that are septuagenarians and
older mad about PACTOR III. "What's wrong with AX.25?!"
That describes literally every aspect of the ham radio community. ARRL
and every club are so worried about losing the old guys with outdated interests that they keep wasting all their resources on that fear. Talk
to any of the kids under twenty-five and they couldn't care less about EmComm, packet, Facebook groups, etc. They want to experiment and tinker and innovate and build, communicate about it on Discord... and send
memes on SSTV.
That "when all else fails" mantra is fear-based too. "Please don't take our non-profit tax-free status and don't sell off our freqency allocations." We should be selling governments, youth, hackers, makers, and whoever else on the notion that we can be innovators again.
I don't know why I'm ranting. I started this reply merely to mention
that I find your posts, Tenser, to be really valuable.
Another issue is that the node software has bitrotted to the point
of often not working. I've fixed lots of bugs in mine; it now "works", to a point, but is disappointingly fragile. It's clear
that that code hasn't gotten a lot of love in the modern era.
Which software exactly?
On 01-22-21 15:48, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-
charges. The same could be done with RF: transfer FTN messages from o VHF station to the other (or maybe even HF), so that we don't necessarily depend on the internet in case of an emergency. Mail coul be routed via different mediums, and there would be a mechanism in place to avoid duplicates and figure out the best path (Internet, phone, HF, VHF, etc.).
Now that sounds like an interesting project.
I agree. This type of project is something I could jump on board with.
On 01-24-21 03:14, tenser wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Approximately all of it, but I'm referring specifically to
the AX.25 tools and apps for Linux. An interesting example
Another issue was in the `ttylinkd` daemon: this is basically
an interface to the venerable talkd(8), and speaks the same
weird undocumented protocol. But its handling of that protocol
was broken (it didn't talk to the local daemon on the right
interface) so I had to fix it. That was really annoying.
I attribute all of this to this software being overly complex
and essentially unmaintained. I could fix it locally, but
its tedious.
Who knows what bugs are lurking in the kernel AX.25 implementation?
On 01-22-21 12:41, SetiOp wrote to Andre <=-
The nostalgia is briefly interesting, but then people move on. The only reason APRS is so popular is because it's built in to radios and takes zero effort to setup. On the other hand, packet radio is a absolute nightmare just to get the hardware/radio working right, even more so to
Yes I agree with you. There are enough of us still interested to build
a network, but it does need to have a new twist to keep people
interested. Packet has always seemed a bit complicated to me and it
didn't seem to evolve like other technology, maybe because of the limitations on VHF radio bandwidth.
There just isn't any benefit or usefulness to packet radio anymore...
I would agree partially with that. The same could be said for phone
modes as well now that we have cell phone technology. It isn't really a fault of the technology as much as what we choose to do with it. APRS
is a good example.
On 20 Jan 2021 at 03:10p, deon pondered and said...
I would love to get data flowing over the air - with no ongoing costs a 3rd party, even if it was a slow speed. Building out (or optimising protocol to support this slow speed would be fun...
I too would like to do this. I'm hot on building communications
resiliency and I like the idea of a ascii BBS running contemporary bbs software available to folks to access over RF.
I've not really played with the older 'built by hams for packet radio
bbs' software but from what I've seen I'm not sure I would really like
it.
My ideal would be (as part of a wider plan of communications resilience) to have bbs FTN running over RF packet as a wider option for people to connect should TCP/IP over 'mainstream' internet channels be taken down due to act of god or man etc..
I have F6FBB via radio and internet telnet lu8fjh.dyndns.org:6300 lu8fjh.dyndns.org:3694 Uronode Netrom tcpip Node
Packet is alive and well here in Maine, and we're linked into New Hampshire and Canada via Houlton, but you're right: it's a very niche market. It's primarily EMAs and hospitals linked with club ECTs and ARES groups. Most of the folks around me in Southern Maine that are tinkering with it here seem to be retired folks with the time to constantly tweak audio levels and mail forwarding rules. I'm one of a few exceptions, age-wise, at 41 years old. However, I'm in it for the emcomm as well.
For giggles, I set up a security level for known hams on my board, and
set up telnet links in the Doors menu to the nodes I'm a sysop for:
WS1EC at the Cumberland County EMA, and W1YCA at the York County EMA;
and their respective emergency communications teams (ham clubs). I'd
love to have a radio link into my BBS, but sadly it'd just be me, and it def needs 9600 to be barely tolerable and still color ANSI.
On 03-14-21 11:25, Roen wrote to SetiOp <=-
Boy, I wish I had linked up fsxNet sooner, I missed a great
conversation! I spent all evening last night reading this thread. All great, valid points.
Other than APRS, there's not a
lot of packet around here that I know of
On 03-18-21 07:47, Nkeck72 wrote to Vk3jed <=-
In article <60531E2D.149.fsx_ham@finalzone.ddns.net>
"Vk3jed" <vk3jed@21:1/109> writes:
Other than APRS, there's not a
lot of packet around here that I know of
I'm sort of in the same situation, we have APRS and WinLink on VHF, but not much else in the way of packet.
Having an RF BBS sounds like it would be awesome, though.
Boy, I wish I had linked up fsxNet sooner, I missed a great
conversation! I spent all evening last night reading this thread. All
Packet is alive and well here in Maine, and we're linked into New
For giggles, I set up a security level for known hams on my board, and
set up telnet links in the Doors menu to the nodes I'm a sysop for:
so I can start setting something up. I am hoping to link into Ohio since I am only 5 minutes from Lake Erie.I'm certain they'd love to have a Canadian on their network. We used to get a thrill seeing DX contacts crawling our nodes from New Brunswick, and they loved seeing us make our way up.
Thats pretty cool. I have a radio telescope in my back yard so I wrote a door to access statistics and get the status of it. At one point I had it soA radio telescope? Cool! Most I've done with space is download SSTV from the ISS and images from NOAA, and the one contact via the ISS repeater.
Is AMPRNet still a thing? I thought I had seen somewhere that it was
kind of going out.
Hello everyone! I am curious if anyone has packet radio being used in their local area for something other than APRS? Packet has pretty much disappeared here in Ontario, Canada, although APRS is still active. I appreciate your time.
On 05-03-21 04:50, tenser wrote to mobbyg <=-
AMPRNet is still very much a thing, but it's a massively
underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.
Here in east Tennessee we have a few Winlink nodes as well as quite a
few APRS digipeaters and even a couple weather stations. We don't have
any AX.25 nodes but I plan to change that here in the near future. :P
underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.
On 05-05-21 20:04, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-
underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.
I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I
used to have an allocation years ago but I lost it at some point. I'll have to try harder I guess. For now I am going to focus on getting the
RF running here.
Bummer. If you can't raise your coordinator, it's work asking on the 44net mailing list.underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I
On 05-08-21 17:02, SetiOp wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Bummer. If you can't raise your coordinator, it's work asking on the 44net mailing list.underutilized resource and more people should get allocations.I haven't had any luck reaching any coordinators here in Ontario. I
Yeah I admit I haven't tried that, I'll have to do that. I am sure
there is some coordinator looking after the block who can help on the list. I'll try that.
On 06-13-21 22:30, Phigan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: Vk3jed to Nkeck72 on Fri Mar 19 2021 05:01 pm
Do you or anyone know what software to use to connect a regular DOS BBS
up on packet radio with a KISS TNC? or would you need a fancier TNC?
Phigan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Do you or anyone know what software to use to connect a regular DOS BBS
up on packet radio with a KISS TNC? or would you need a fancier TNC?
On 06-13-21 22:30, Phigan wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: Packet Radio
By: Vk3jed to Nkeck72 on Fri Mar 19 2021 05:01 pm
Do you or anyone know what software to use to connect a regular DOS BBS
up on packet radio with a KISS TNC? or would you need a fancier TNC?
Is anyone doing packet anymore? I mean K2K and BBS/Nodes not so much the APRS or WINLINK flavor of the mode. I have a PK232 in the box still and
am really trying to justify setting up the thing and one of my old 2m radios. I have family with some prime real estate for a node that would really give some coverage too. It would be nice to have a BBS that was a sort of IGATE that could function both radio and TELNET too. 1200bps is pretty painful though...
Is anyone doing packet anymore? I mean K2K and BBS/Nodes not so much the APRS or WINLINK flavor of the mode. I have a PK232 in the box still and
I'm out in Elmira so southern tier.
just testing my pakratt and think HF is my lot!
Is there anything similar to store and forward type communications going on that I just haven't heard about? Any new sound card modes out there?
It feels like the hobby has stagnated to a degree as the internet took over.
I am not sure about New York, but Ohio seems to be quite busy with
packet. I am across the lake from Cleveland and was hoping to link South-Western Ontario to their network. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to
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