• echos - a morbid curiosity

    From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to August Abolins on Wed Dec 16 03:41:29 2020
    On 16 Dec 2020, August Abolins said the following...

    On 12/15/2020 6:23 AM, between "Charles Pierson - August Abolins":

    There are many, many echos that aren't listed. That doesn't mean they ar connected though.

    Of course. That is part of the problem - they are not easily "known" to exist.


    Fidonet or othernets for that matter are not particularly known to exist outside of the participants for that matter. Or if they are it's in a vague "old fashioned computer thing" that gets an occasional nostalgia article in computer articles.

    Echos are limited by whatever the Sysop carries. I've read discussions a it where some sysops have said they only carry those areas which interes them. That's fair, it's their system after all. So it becomes a crap sho whether or not a particular Echo is on a particular system.

    Crap shoot it certainly is. :( But that situation does not help to bolster users.

    It's no good for example to have 3 different BBSes to boast that they carry Fidonet, when all 3 of them carry different combinations and/or
    only a handful of echos and never plan to change.


    Fidonet is not a business, Its a platform for and by hobbiests. These
    hobbiests have different interests, so their BBSes are going to reflect thay.

    You aren't likely to convince very many sysops to change how they do things. The way you would like things to be only stands a chance of happening is for people with views like yours to start BBSes in the way you would like to see them.

    It would be nice if there was a more consolidated (and real-time) w announce active/live echos.
    You aren't going to get real-time with FTN Technology. The best you'lll is those systems that have bots or whatever that post stats from their systems.

    If "bot" is the closest to real-time, that would be great!

    They post in the STATS echo. Which youpve already said is mind numbing for
    you.

    You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their echos.

    The best thing that I can come up with for a typical BBS would be the sysop could post a bulletin with a list of echos they carried and a desriptuon of them.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:153/757.26)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Charles Pierson on Wed Dec 16 00:03:00 2020
    Hello Charles!

    ** On Wednesday 16.12.20 - 03:41, Charles Pierson wrote to August Abolins:

    Fidonet or othernets for that matter are not particularly
    known to exist outside of the participants for that
    matter. Or if they are it's in a vague "old fashioned
    computer thing" that gets an occasional nostalgia article
    in computer articles.

    With reminds me.. how's your fidonet article coming along?


    It's no good for example to have 3 different BBSes to
    boast that they carry Fidonet, when all 3 of them carry
    different combinations and/or only a handful of echos
    and never plan to change.

    Fidonet is not a business, Its a platform for and by
    hobbiests. These hobbiests have different interests, so
    their BBSes are going to reflect thay.

    Not a business - of course, I know that. But it consists of
    talented sysops who love solving coding and config problems -
    and maybe to look at new solutions to long-standing problems.


    You aren't likely to convince very many sysops to change
    how they do things. The way you would like things to be
    only stands a chance of happening is for people with
    views like yours to start BBSes in the way you would like
    to see them.

    Maybe a conversation like this could encourage new ideas
    though.


    If "bot" is the closest to real-time, that would be
    great!

    They post in the STATS echo. Which youpve already said is
    mind numbing for you.

    You have no idea what is mind numbing for me. ;) Personally,
    I love stats and database things. Wrt to the STATS echo, I
    was reflecting on it from an average chatting user's pov - not
    a statistician's pov.


    You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their
    echos.

    Yes.. that is useful for annoucing/reminding people about the
    existence of specific echos. But it doesn't provide the info
    on which BBSes they can be found.


    The best thing that I can come up with for a typical BBS
    would be the sysop could post a bulletin with a list of
    echos they carried and a desriptuon of them.

    I like the sound of a broadcast bulletin, as opposed to an
    isolated bulletin on a BBS that might never be visited
    otherwise.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.47
    * Origin: Got mobile? FUTURE4FIDO = https://tinyurl.com/yx9z6d37 (2:221/1.58)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Charles Pierson on Wed Dec 16 07:30:00 2020
    Charles Pierson wrote to August Abolins <=-

    Fidonet is not a business, Its a platform for and by hobbiests. These hobbiests have different interests, so their BBSes are going to reflect thay.

    You aren't likely to convince very many sysops to change how they do things. The way you would like things to be only stands a chance of happening is for people with views like yours to start BBSes in the way you would like to see them.

    I think it's safe to say that most BBS message areas break down in to
    3 categories:

    1. Just the message areas the sysop reads
    2. The whole echolist
    3. Whatever echoes have traffic in posts to the STATS echo

    I'm in camp number 3; unfortunately it's counter-productive as it
    promotes traffic in existing echoes instead of promoting new/quiet
    echoes.

    I've always wanted BBS software that would auto-add areas when
    received, and prune them when dead for a set period of time.
    Subscribe to everything your uplink has and let the BBS sort the
    areas out...

    Regarding "private" echoes that aren't advertised, I don't understand
    that. I've seen some people complaining about the backbone list and
    the echolist based on fear of someone exerting control or censorship
    over echoes, but how else are you going to advertise them and get new
    contributors?




    It would be nice if there was a more consolidated (and real-time) w announce active/live echos.
    You aren't going to get real-time with FTN Technology. The best you'lll is those systems that have bots or whatever that post stats from their systems.

    If "bot" is the closest to real-time, that would be great!

    They post in the STATS echo. Which youpve already said is mind numbing
    for you.

    You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their echos.

    The best thing that I can come up with for a typical BBS would be the sysop could post a bulletin with a list of echos they carried and a desriptuon of them.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:153/757.26)

    ... Are there sections? Consider transitions
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Wed Dec 16 07:37:00 2020
    August Abolins wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

    With reminds me.. how's your fidonet article coming along?

    Imagine if they had a restriction to only discussion of Fidonews
    articles in the Fidonews echo? There'd need to be some articles
    first.

    You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their
    echos.

    Yes.. that is useful for annoucing/reminding people about the
    existence of specific echos. But it doesn't provide the info
    on which BBSes they can be found.

    It might be a good idea for ECHO_ADS posters to ask people to call
    their BBS to check out the echo. Getting additional user traffic
    doesn't hurt, either.

    Moderators posting a list of BBSes active in the echo wouldn't be hard.
    Many mail tossers can create stats for specific areas as well, which would
    show which BBSes are connected and are active in the group.

    It might help liven up those monthly rules postings.



    ... Are there sections? Consider transitions
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Charles Pierson@1:153/757.26 to Kurt Weiske on Wed Dec 16 17:39:01 2020
    On 16 Dec 2020, Kurt Weiske said the following...
    I think it's safe to say that most BBS message areas break down in to
    3 categories:

    1. Just the message areas the sysop reads
    2. The whole echolist
    3. Whatever echoes have traffic in posts to the STATS echo

    I'm in camp number 3; unfortunately it's counter-productive as it
    promotes traffic in existing echoes instead of promoting new/quiet
    echoes.


    I based my earlier comment based on conversations I've seen. And agree there are more types than I suggested.

    I'm just getting this board going, so right now it's message areas I'm interested in for the most part. But it's running Fido based on my point address. Once I get my actual node number, that will likely change.

    I've always wanted BBS software that would auto-add areas when
    received, and prune them when dead for a set period of time.
    Subscribe to everything your uplink has and let the BBS sort the
    areas out...

    I know that there is software that autocreates areas, the pruning would be
    nice though.

    Regarding "private" echoes that aren't advertised, I don't understand
    that. I've seen some people complaining about the backbone list and
    the echolist based on fear of someone exerting control or censorship
    over echoes, but how else are you going to advertise them and get new
    contributors?


    I don't understand it either. But a lot of it baffles me.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:153/757.26)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Bob Roberts on Fri Dec 18 17:56:58 2020
    BY: Bob Roberts(1:218/840)


    |11BR|09> |10We need to be ready incase Fidonet gets popular overnight. It's built|07
    |11BR|09> |10to scale baby! Proven performance. <slaps roof of fidonet>. This baby|07
    |11BR|09> |10is battle tested!|07
    I might write an essay teaching people how to be bbs users and how to setup their own bbses when facebook and twitter start going postal at its users.


    --- WWIV 5.6.0.3368
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From Bob Roberts@1:218/840 to Matt Munson on Fri Dec 18 22:24:13 2020
    |11BR|09> |10We need to be ready incase Fidonet gets popular overnight. It's built|07
    |11BR|09> |10to scale baby! Proven performance. <slaps roof of fidonet>. This baby|07
    |11BR|09> |10is battle tested!|07
    I might write an essay teaching people how to be bbs users and how to setup their own bbses when
    facebook and twitter start going postal at its users.

    Fidonet is fairly decentralized and distributed.

    I remember when Scientology was at war with Usenet, they had no central authority to go after, so they tried to send thousands of cancel posts. Was not very successful as far as I know.
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: Halls of Valhalla =-= Happy Holidays (1:218/840)