Bj”rn Felten wrote to nathanael culver <=-

They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

Why? If not for the bulletins, then what?

The file areas? http://eljaco.se/FILES/

On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and
other modern games?

Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if
you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs.
Sorry...

Will you please moderate yourself, and shut up and go away?

You're babbling incoherently, and don't even realize it.

Face it: change is coming regardless of what you think or want.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
By: nathanael culver to Bj”rn Felten on Wed Mar 13 2019 05:49 pm

Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs. Sorry...

Huh? I'm a new fidonet user.

Ignore him. The rest of us do.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)

Re: Re: www.fidonet.io
By: Dan Clough to nathanael culver on Wed Mar 13 2019 07:54 am

Ignore him and let's keep moving Fidonet forward.

Aye-aye, captain!

Let's go!
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Gateway to the West BBS | St. Louis, Missouri (1:290/10)

Hello Bj”rn,

And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join Fidonet?
We'd
rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search
for that,
and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

Yes Nathanael, that is a total disaster!

Is there anything that can be done about it?

The simple fact, that it is so easy to join fidonet when it comes to the original idea, the bulletins, is even to someone that's been connected to the fidonet BBS network for more than three decades like me, totally incomprehensible.

True enough. But, the question remains, does it have to be this way?
Or remain this way?

Alas, we have all those self-appointed powers that will struggle to their death before they give up their private little fiefdoms. But the more bulletin users we can attract, the sooner we can make fidonet great again. At least that's what I believe.

Then, the answer has been in front of us all along! How could we
have all overlooked this? Well, maybe not all of us. But a good many.
And to think, this is the 21st century, with newer and better ways of connecting! Rather than using archaic technology of 30 years ago,
we are free to use other means of doing the same thing!

The "How to connect to Fidonet" has been solved!
The "How to become a sysop" has also been solved!

With no "self-appointed powers that be" necessary to tell us
how or what to do! Ah, the wonders of the bulletins!

MFGA - Make Fidonet Great Again

Should I wear a red hat, or a blue one?

--Lee

--
Everybody Loves Our Buns

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Nathanael,

All they need to do, if the bulletins are what they want, is to
*CLICK* on (and yes, if you are using a modern FTN editor, you can

click

on a link) e.g. the link in my origin line.

They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

For whatever reasons of their own. Could be just for bulletins.
Could also be for no other reason than to see if they could do it.
Or maybe even for no reason at all.

And don't you already have to be connected to Fidonet to see your origin line?

No.

I think that's part of the point the others are making here: you have a totally different prospective audience in mind.

Not all participants are sysops. But those who aren't can be
regarded as probationary sysops, or prospective sysops.

For you it's folks already familiar with the BBS scene and have a working acquaintance with its vocabulary and technology. For them it's people who have heard of FidoNet, but maybe not a BBS, and have no familiarity with the BBS scene.

Some do. But others are nothing more than "glorified points",
not really having had the experience of being part of a BBS, which
is really a type of community, not just technology.

I know you keep insisting FidoNet is and always has been a BBS network, but
"because the Policy says so," is not a good argument.

Even though it is, and always has been, a BBS network.
Independent on whatever the fuck any "policy" says or declares.

A free association of sysops from around the world. That is
what Fidonet is, and always has been. A community of real people
sharing something they all love.

--Lee

--
Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bob,

And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join

Fidonet?

We'd
rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search
for that,
and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

Yes Nathanael, that is a total disaster!

15 years ago when I set up my BBS (which was formerly a point) I had the only system in what used to be Net 285 (Omaha NE area), but there were probably 20 systems still listed in the nodelist. I think what happened in that case is that the NC dropped out of Fidonet and didn't bother to find someone else to take over or tell anybody upstream

His next of kin should have taken care of all the arrangements.
But apparently, they missed the details ...

--Lee

--
Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and other modern
games?

You would be surprised.

Quite possibly.

Back then, before the WWW, it *was* popular to play on-line games at you local BBS. There simply was no alternative.

What many of us BBS operators by then took pride in, was to only have games that you had written yourself.

My most popular, home-made game was MasterMind. It became so popular that I decided to make it my first (and only) shareware program:

http://eljaco.se/FILES/DEV/MASTER.ZIP

With almost a thousand active BBSs in Sweden by then, I choose to only attract Swedish BBSs -- that's why the register info is in Swedish only. To my big surprise I got more than 50 registrations -- earning me the equivalent of some EUR250.

Of course it took me several hours to write the program at a time when I charged EUR100/hour at my day-time job, so I obviously didn't do it for the money. 8-)



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 13/03/2019 23:58, 1:123/115 wrote:

They don't want bulletins, they want to join Fidonet.

Why? If not for the bulletins, then what?

The file areas? http://eljaco.se/FILES/

On line games? How can ANSI-only games compete with WoW and
other modern games?

Nah, I think that you and several others are on a dead end if
you try to attract new users to fidonet with 30yo BBS programs.
Sorry...

Will you please moderate yourself, and shut up and go away?

You're babbling incoherently, and don't even realize it.

Or could it be your understanding skills.

While I do not speak/read Swedish I have no issues understanding what Bj”rn is saying/writing.


--

Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
* Origin: Bucca, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)

Even though it is, and always has been, a BBS network.

Only by historical accident, or necessity, if you will. Fidonet is a
messaging network that for historical reasons has always been carried on
BBSes, But it is neither conceptually nor technologically tied to BBSes, except by choice.

ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ·
*HúUúMúOúNúGúOúUúS* BúBúS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)

Hi Dan -- on Mar 10 2019 at 17:45, you wrote:

That link opens up a Usenet client, since it's a "news:<blah>"

Since it starts with "www", I opened a browser window and typed "fidonet.io" -- full page opens with all details as advertised.




Cheers... Dallas

--- timEd/NT 1.30+
* Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)

The odds of that person knowing how to use/navigate a
Usenet client is pretty much ZERO. Do you seriously expect them
to jump through all those hoops?

Well, I have some 100 registered (and many, many more anonymous ditto) users that managed to find the Subscribe button in their news client, so obviously the person you imagine, wanting to take part of Fidonet, is much smarter than you think.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Mar 10 14:19:00, you wrote to me:

sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just
another field to be filled in manually or automatically after the
software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:" field...
it should also be noted that that traditional FTN software only does
FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and analyze the target
address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK or some other
supported-by-that-software private system-to-system mail format...

OK, I get that there is some variation in the mechanics of things.

yeah, that was my main point... as a seasoned FTNer, i had to learn new methods of addressing when looking at and working with other software that does FTN is a different manner than traditional FTN does... it was a huge eye opener... an eye opener that some other well intentioned FTNers could use...

I think what I was meaning there above was that there could be a document/instruction that spells that kind of thing out, even give examples of how to Netmail your prospective NC with some of the
more commonly used software. A "How to Join Fidonet" document
with clear/concise directions, without extra fluff. It could be
available on any/all FidoNet BBS's, and <GASP> could even be a
regular feature in the FidoNews magazine!

i'm going to try to get my old fidonet related pages back operational with the new server over here... it should be pretty easy but i haven't tried yet... i don't know how they compare with what folks are suggesting, though... i am/was quite happy with them when i developed them but then i got sidetracked with other things and real life... really, the only ones that needed updating would be the links to other zones/regions/nets pages when they change and the IC/ZC and RC lists... i think i had RC lists but maybe not... i certainly remember the joy when i finally got a clickable map working... that was a major PITA to define the "click regions" of the image... especially to do it without expending $$$ for a job that would be done only once or maybe twice...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... God must have loved the poor people, he made so many of them. A. Lincoln ---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Mar 10 21:11:52, you wrote to Robert Stinnett:

I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

ya done good, joacim! you have my support :)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I prefer my oysters fried. Then I know my oysters died.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Mar 10 17:26:54, you wrote to Dan Clough:

That link opens up a Usenet client, since it's a "news:<blah>"

Since it starts with "www",

it does? he's talking about the fidonews.eu domain that BF posted... the "check it out" link that BF points to is, indeed, a news:// link... specifically news://eljaco.se... the next link is "get your own copy of the server" but there's absolutely no indication what server is being talked about... the 3rd link is to fidonews archives with the latest ones being wwwwaaaaayyyy down at the bottom of the page and having year 119 dates...

eg:
FNEWTA10.ZIP 12039 3/11-119 The Fidonews: Vol#36, Issue#10 for Mar. 11, 2019

in any case, there's no indication at all that fidonews.eu is a frontpage for some news server... we won't even mention that you really end up on fidonews.felten.se instead of fidonews.eu...

I opened a browser window and typed "fidonet.io" -- full page opens
with all details as advertised.

that's the new site that joacim created :)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I'll be unstoppable when I get started.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

mark lewis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just
another field to be filled in manually or automatically after the
software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:" field...
it should also be noted that that traditional FTN software only does
FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and analyze the target
address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK or some other
supported-by-that-software private system-to-system mail format...

OK, I get that there is some variation in the mechanics of things.

yeah, that was my main point... as a seasoned FTNer, i had to
learn new methods of addressing when looking at and working with
other software that does FTN is a different manner than
traditional FTN does... it was a huge eye opener... an eye opener
that some other well intentioned FTNers could use...

Indeed. <grin>

I think what I was meaning there above was that there could be a document/instruction that spells that kind of thing out, even give examples of how to Netmail your prospective NC with some of the
more commonly used software. A "How to Join Fidonet" document
with clear/concise directions, without extra fluff. It could be
available on any/all FidoNet BBS's, and <GASP> could even be a
regular feature in the FidoNews magazine!

i'm going to try to get my old fidonet related pages back
operational with the new server over here... it should be pretty
easy but i haven't tried yet... i don't know how they compare
with what folks are suggesting, though... i am/was quite happy
with them when i developed them but then i got sidetracked with
other things and real life... really, the only ones that needed
updating would be the links to other zones/regions/nets pages
when they change and the IC/ZC and RC lists... i think i had RC
lists but maybe not... i certainly remember the joy when i
finally got a clickable map working... that was a major PITA to
define the "click regions" of the image... especially to do it
without expending $$$ for a job that would be done only once or
maybe twice...

That would be great. Something to chip away at in your "spare
time"... Maybe they could become part of the new/improved Fidonet
website eventually. Appreciate that, and the efforts of everyone
else who may get involved in this "renovation" project. I'm going
to try and help also, if I can.

Maybe we can actually drag, kicking and screaming, the Fidonet
world into the 21st century!!! :)



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Ward,

Only one node active in the Philippines, Eric was around well before I left.

I am still in touch with most of the Ex-sysops and when I go back later in the year will try to interest some of them. A group of us usually meet up to have lunch or dinner and catch up when I visit.

We had a very fiendly group of sysops years back and also had a non-profit group called CyberPhil to fund and share the costs, the benefit to users was they got a free email service and address first.last@fidonet.ph when the internet first came out there as ISP costs were quite expensive where as local phone calls were free.

Cyberphil had around a 100 members who would meet at least once a year to have a social function, play lan games and raise funds. A few of these people later on went to have high positions in the IT industry.

Those were the days.

Terry

On Mar 10, 2019 11:42am, Ward Dossche wrote to TERRY ROATI:

Terry,

Many years back I looked after the Fidonet Philippines site which I have TR>> revived for Historical purposes only since Zone 6 is gone.

If enough nodes would pop-up wonderful things might be possible ...

Are you the onlyone left or are there other folks hiding in the
woodwork ?

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Kind regards, Terry Roati (tfb-bbs.org)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

It was not easy to find the right information to re-join Fidonet after 15+ years, in the end Janis Kracht gave me the Z3 contact details and it went smoothly from there.

The reason for this is conflicting information on the internet due to dead links, old websites and a lack of updates etc.

Andre made some very relevenant and pertinent points about this with multiple domains for the same thing, however without knowing the reasons behind the domain issues it is difficult to move forward but due to the time taken this had led to more domains being added for the same thing (frustration).

For example, my google search (Aus) for 'fidonews" showed a quite a few differnt web site options and the site fidonews.eu was not one of them.

I think, it is got to the point were most sites are not really offical and
or updated.

If there was some sort of agreement (wishful thinking) on a specific sites
then if all other sites would add links to them this issue would be gone.

Hopefully this is under discussion aty the higher levels and a solution will soon be found as the present situation is a hinderance to growing Fidonet.

Terry

On Mar 10, 2019 03:30pm, Bj”rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough:

No. It's obscure and not even REMOTELY obvious to a newcomer that
they should look in there.

On top of the results from Google (for me -- YMMV) is the old,
defunct fidonet.org site. Even there it's a link to the likewise
defunct fidonews.org site. Doesn't that make you curious if you are
really into Fidonet? What better place to get information about
something than a dedicated magazine?

Even then, if they did, is there any
useful information in the magazine that would help a new
prospective Sysop get a node number?

Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500 or so)
issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from where
opens up a plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you start
asking advice about how to go Full Fidonet Node.

But rather than complaining, why don't you write an article about it yourself? Don't always expect other people to do things for you...

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125 * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Kind regards, Terry Roati (tfb-bbs.org)

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver
platter, ready to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.

And ... uh ... why not? Download, run the installer, enter your node info and everything comes up working. I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ·
*HúUúMúOúNúGúOúUúS* BúBúS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)

And ... uh ... why not? Download, run the installer, enter your node
info and
everything comes up working. I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

It's not. Not at all. But we are discussing how to make the new generations to discover fidonet. And what I claim is that we don't have to make them download and install old MS-DOS programs and make their phone lines open to the world.

All they need to do, if the bulletins are what they want, is to *CLICK* on (and yes, if you are using a modern FTN editor, you can click on a link) e.g. the link in my origin line.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

This! I am brand spanking new to Fidonet, and I gotta concur fidonet.org is a disaster. Nothing screams "Fidonet is dead!" louder than a webpage dated 2003 full of dead links. And I love the "historical fidonet.fidonet.org web site sn an history of FidoNet (1992)" link. Now surely THAT doesn't say, "We're living in the past."

And that "About Joining Fidonet" page is clear: "You wanna join Fidonet? We'd rather you just go away, but if you insist go chase down this, search for that, and try not to bother us too much, 'K?"

ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ· ÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ·
*HúUúMúOúNúGúOúUúS* BúBúS nathanael : jenandcal.familyds.org:2323
ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ ÓÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄĽ

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A42 2018/12/27 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: *HUMONGOUS* BBS (3:712/886)

nathanael culver wrote to Bj”rn Felten <=-

Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver
platter, ready to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.

And ... uh ... why not? Download, run the installer, enter your
node info and everything comes up working. I fail to see how that
would be a bad thing.

It isn't a bad thing. It's just that Beorn wouldn't feel like he
had any control over that, and therefore is against it. He's also
against any kind of changes to Fidonet, preferring to keep it in a
depressed state instead of promoting it's growth. Why? I'm not
real sure, other than he's a bitter old has-been with no actual
power to control anything, but can't admit that.

Ignore him and let's keep moving Fidonet forward.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Bj”rn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

No. It's obscure and not even REMOTELY obvious to a newcomer that
they should look in there.

On top of the results from Google (for me -- YMMV) is the old,
defunct fidonet.org site. Even there it's a link to the likewise
defunct fidonews.org site. Doesn't that make you curious if you
are really into Fidonet? What better place to get information
about something than a dedicated magazine?

No, it doesn't do that for me. What it does is indicate to me
that whoever is maintaining the organization (Fidonet) is doing a
piss-poor job. Dead links and defunct websites would probably
make most potential new sysops say "screw this, it's unmaintained
and not worth my time". And if you, in response to that, would
say something like "Oh well, their loss".... then *YOU* are one of
the main reasons that Fidonet continues to decline.

Even then, if they did, is there any
useful information in the magazine that would help a new
prospective Sysop get a node number?

Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500
or so) issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from
where opens up a plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you
start asking advice about how to go Full Fidonet Node.

I've read all recent issues. They are all exactly the same. None
of them contains *ANY* information on how to apply for a Fidonet
node number. Just for curiosity, I browsed to fidonews.eu, and
was presented with a "Login first" page. Most people won't do
that. Again, my whole point here is that the information needed
by a prospective new Fidonet member should be *EASY* and *OBVIOUS*
to obtain. Jumping through hoops makes people not bother.

But rather than complaining, why don't you write an article
about it yourself? Don't always expect other people to do things
for you...

I may do that, assuming I get some free time in the near future.
We'll see.



... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

mark lewis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I agree with this completely. I was a Fidonet sysop back in the
early 90's, and left in 96 when I had to move and the internet was
taking over anyway. Recently came back, and although I certainly remembered the basics of how Fido works, I had some minor trouble contacting my prospective new NC because of simple things like the
proper addressing syntax of a Netmail. Is it
"first.last@<address>", or is it "first last@<address>", or.... ?

to be fair, this is specifically related to the software being
used... most traditional FTN software has separate name and
address fields...
To: some user Addr: 1:0/0

sometimes that "Addr:" field is not even labeled... it is just
another field to be filled in manually or automatically after the
software has done a nodelist lookup on the name in the "To:"
field... it should also be noted that that traditional FTN
software only does FTN addressing and doesn't have to parse and
analyze the target address to determine if it is FTN, email, QWK
or some other supported-by-that-software private system-to-system
mail format...

OK, I get that there is some variation in the mechanics of things.
I think what I was meaning there above was that there could be a document/instruction that spells that kind of thing out, even give
examples of how to Netmail your prospective NC with some of the
more commonly used software. A "How to Join Fidonet" document
with clear/concise directions, without extra fluff. It could be
available on any/all FidoNet BBS's, and <GASP> could even be a
regular feature in the FidoNews magazine!



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bj”rn Felten <=-

If someone from the real world wants to find out something about
fidonet, what does he do? Look for an echo called fidonews? No,
he googles for "fidonet".

For more than two months?

A lot has changed in Fidonet, but there is one constant factor.
We still use a nodelist. So.... If I had been away for no matter
how long and wanted to return and needed to find the nearest NC,
I would google for "fidonet nodelist".

Should not take two month...

I don't think the example under discussion was someone who was
"returning" to Fidonet. It was someone trying to join for the
first time. Such a person probably doesn't know anything about a
Nodelist, or what it is, or how it would be useful.

Even if you did, trying to find a copy of it can be difficult,
when even the links on fidonet.org that should lead to a nodelist
are dead.



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This isn't 1997 -- it's 2019. I do not have time to spend every waking free
moment looking for information in a sea of dead links. Nor do I, or anyone
else, have time to go "searching" for an elusive newsletter that might
or might
not contain information on a website that I don't even know exists.

Depends of course on how dedicated you are. But still, during more than two months, surely you could end up better than e.g. mailing some dead wood somewhere?

Needless to say, if you happen to stumble upon the fidonet's dedicated magazine, you should not be more than an email or two away from all the info you need. For you that don't want to "spend every waking free moment".

Unless of course you expect to have it all served on a silver platter, ready to go on an .msi or .msp installer file.



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Just for curiosity, I browsed to fidonews.eu, and
was presented with a "Login first" page. Most people won't do
that.

Of course they do not. That's why there is a "Check it out anonymously" link at the top left. What most people of yours would not want that, if you are *really* interested in fidonet?



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Re: www.fidonet.io
By: Björn Felten to Dan Clough on Sun Mar 10 2019 03:31 pm

Well, maybe you haven't read any recent (as in the latest 500 or so)
issue properly? You can for instance try fidonews.eu from where opens up a

plethora of fidonet echoes to read before you start asking advice about ho

w

to go Full Fidonet Node.

And how in the HELL is someone who is new to Fidonet supposed to know
this and
find it?

This isn't 1997 -- it's 2019. I do not have time to spend every
waking free
moment looking for information in a sea of dead links. Nor do I, or anyone
else, have time to go "searching" for an elusive newsletter that
might or might
not contain information on a website that I don't even know exists.

It's a boys club where the newbies really shouldn't even apply. Compare it to FSXNet where new members get help from other members and the founder of the network, it's all friendly and non of the constant tiresome arguing that's been going on here for the last X number of years.

I had expected some pushback for creating www.fidonet.io and I was prepared for it but the discussion, as usual in this and other echos, have taken a turn to absurd and silly by a few of you.

I tried to help, do some good for the network, and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

I tried to help, do some good for the network,

I think you have done so.

and I will continue to do so, with or without your support.

You have my support. I know that you and others have been working with a goal of updating the fidonet.org site. I'm hopeful that in time that can be done.

I don't think the location (fidonet.net, fidonet.org, fidonet.io etc) is as important as getting good and up to date info out there.

It would be beneficial if the fidonet.org site could be updated but if that can't happen then we just have to move on with something else.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)