Hi, All!

The Gun Seller, by Hugh Laurie

-----Beginning of the citation-----
His name was Rayner. First name unknown. By me, at
any rate, and therefore, presumably, by you too.
----- The end of the citation -----

It seems I forgot it -- when I am asked "what's your name" -- am I asked
about my second name? Or you have some variants? ;)

Bye, All!
Alexander Koryagin

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Alexander Koryagin:

It seems I forgot it -- 384at's your name" -- am I asked
about my second name? Or you have some variants? ;)

It may be your first, last, or full name. Remember the self-
introduciton of the famous fictional detective Lew Archer:
"The name is Archer."

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* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

-----Beginning of the citation-----
His name was Rayner. First name unknown. By me,
at any rate, and therefore, presumably, by you too.
----- The end of the citation -----

It seems I forgot it -- when I am asked "what's
your name" -- am I asked about my second name?
Or you have some variants? ;)

A lot depends on the circumstances. At informal gatherings I might say "Alexander, I'd like you to meet my friend Bruce". The use of first names often implies familiarity & social equality, however... so things may be a bit different where kids are involved. If I were introducing you to a grade eight class you'd be "Mr. Koryagin" to them and "Alexander" in the staff room. OTOH you may also, as an adult friend of the family, be called "Uncle Alex(ander)".

Years ago... when I worked as a waitress... I was known by my first name & entered by the back door while as a teacher I was known as "Miss XXX" & entered by the front door, although for some time the two jobs overlapped. It was axiomatic back then that, as a customer, you'd be "Sir" or "Mr. Koryagin". It didn't strike me as unusual when Dallas & I were in our twenties that a few shop assistants in our neighbourhood were known to us as Mr. So-and-So because they were much older. We'd both seen how conservative our grandparents & even our parents were WRT first names. But nowadays things are generally much more informal, and we may encounter a lot of people whose surnames we don't know.

Sometimes that works, sometimes not. Children & foreigners usually get my first name right because they're open to experience & don't try to make it conform to what they think they already know. When the receptionist at the dentist's office e.g. asks for my name I say "Mrs. Hinton" because it's easier to spell. She may think it's stuffy, old-fashioned, and/or elitist... but she gets it right. OTOH, you might find it more efficient to say "Alexander" when you're waiting your turn & you're not likely to be confused with someone else.

If you were employed in a military or quasi-military job, you would probably wear a badge saying "Koryagin". If you're reading about a fictitious character who attended a British private school during the last century or so, you might see him introducing himself as e.g. "Bond... James Bond". In such a situation the use of both names adds credibility, I reckon, just as it does in Fidonet where there are potentially larger numbers of people involved. But if we're making a reservation at a local eatery there may be two or three Hintons involved & the newbies at the front desk don't need to know all the details... in which case the first to arrive will use only the surname. Other members of staff who know us well are not discouraged from using our first names.

YMMV, of course. I've never been to Russia... but I have noticed a difference in levels of formality between the UK & the US. :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Ardith Hinton! ->Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 21.04.2021 23:58

A lot depends on the circumstances. At informal
gatherings I might say "Alexander, I'd like you to meet my
friend Bruce". The use of first names often implies
familiarity & social equality, however... so things may be a bit
different where kids are involved. If I were introducing you to a
grade eight class you'd be "Mr. Koryagin" to them and "Alexander" in
the staff room. OTOH you may also, as an adult friend of the family,
be called "Uncle Alex(ander)".

So, if you are a headmaster in school, and you want to find out who is that naughty boy throwing rocks, you will ask him, "Why you are not at a lesson? What's your second name?"

Bye, Ardith!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

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* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Alexander Koragin:

So, if you are a headmaster in school, and you want to
find out who is that naughty boy throwing rocks, you
will ask him, "Why you are not at a lesson?

Why *are* you not *in class*? (I think)

What's your second name?"

"Tell me your name." should be enough.

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* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

So, if you are a headmaster in school,

Usage note: as a female I might well be headmistress of a private school in this country but principal (gender neutral) of a public school. :-)

and you want to find out who is that naughty boy
throwing rocks, you will ask him, "Why you are
not at a lesson?

Assuming the incident occurred during class hours I'd probably say ... as Anton suggested... "Why are you not in class?

What's your second name?"

I'd start by saying "What's your name?" If he replied with only a given name I'd pursue the matter further, because in a large high school there could easily be dozens of kids who are known by the same first name. The term "second name" could be confusing, though, in English. Let's say we have a boy whose full legal name is on record in the office as

John Jacob Jingleheimer-Schmidt

... meaning he has two given names & a double-barrelled surname. I think he'd probably be called "John Schmidt" at school. But some people use their middle name, i.e. the second of two given names, in preference to their first. If we say "first name" they may or may not take that to mean the first name they are usually called by. In general I avoid terms like first name, second name, and full name because I can't be sure how others will interpret them.

Now, what to do instead? If Mr. & Mrs. Jones & their 2.3 children use the surname "Jones" you can refer to it as a family name... but things are often more complex these days. A woman may prefer to use her maiden name, for any number of reasons, and/or she may remarry. IOW a parent's surname may not be the same as that of the individual who's throwing rocks or whatever. I say "surname" because it covers a lot of territory including historical characters like Harold Bluetooth who may not have had family names as we know them. :-))

If "surname" is beyond the limits of the other person's vocabulary you could try "last name", but this might not work with e.g. recent immigrants from parts of Southeast Asia where the family name comes first. "John what??" works in many cases although it sounds unbecoming of a principal... [chuckle].




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hi, Ardith Hinton! -> Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 27.04.2021 21:46

So, if you are a headmaster in school,

Usage note: as a female I might well be headmistress of a private
school in this country but principal (gender neutral) of a public
school.

Although, I spoke in general, not about you. And don't you find that "principal" is a more formal word? "Principal came to the boy and asked..." or "Headmaster/mistress came to the boy..."

and you want to find out who is that naughty boy throwing rocks,
you will ask him, "Why you are not at a lesson?

Assuming the incident occurred during class hours I'd probably
say.. as Anton suggested... "Why are you not in class?

But in informal speech I often hear questions asked as an affirmative sentence with questionable intonation?

What's your second name?"

I'd start by saying "What's your name?" If he replied with only a
given name I'd pursue the matter further, because in a large high
school there could easily be dozens of kids who are known by the
same first name. The term "second name" could be confusing, though,
in English. Let's say we have a boy whose full legal name is on
record in the office as

John Jacob Jingleheimer-Schmidt

Poor boy, but, nevertheless, there is no other way to establish boy's identity (to call his parents to Principal). ;)

<skipped>

Now, what to do instead? If Mr. & Mrs. Jones & their 2.3 children
use the surname "Jones" you can refer to it as a family name... but
things are often more complex these days. A woman may prefer to use
her maiden name, for any number of reasons, and/or she may remarry.
IOW a parent's surname may not be the same as that of the
individual who's throwing rocks or whatever. I say "surname"
because it covers a lot of territory including historical
characters like Harold Bluetooth who may not have had family names
as we know them. :-))

But any child is written in the school register with a certain surname. And probably he must know his surname.

If "surname" is beyond the limits of the other person's vocabulary
you could try "last name", but this might not work with e.g. recent immigrants from parts of Southeast Asia where the family name comes
first. "John what??" works in many cases although it sounds
unbecoming of a principal... [chuckle].

I think it is better to use "surname" in that circumstance. But it's too late to correct my translation. ;)

Bye, Ardith!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2021

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