Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)

Welcome To The CROSSFIRE Echo
=============================

[RULES] Last Revised: 05/08/2009

The CROSSFIRE echo is meant for the discussion of political, social and everyday concerns that affect society at large.

The topic matter of this echo is not one to be taken lightly, it is not
for example as easy to discuss as lets say a shared hobby, like ham radio, hunting and fishing, stamp collecting or wood carving. People whom discuss
the topic matter can be laid back all the way up to extremely passionate.

[Religion]

Political discussions often touch on or are affected by religion, the CROSSFIRE echo is not a safe haven for those with faith or those
claiming to be without faith. Neither is it a safe haven for those whom
fall onto any one spot of the political idealogical spectrum.

Discussion of religion is not forbidden here, but it should not be the sole constituent of your debates. Nor should message threads be started in
which religion is the sole topic and it starts to dominate the echo.

If your intention is to **only** discuss religion be it for or against
then you might want to seek out another avenue, such as HOLYSMOKE or EDGE_ONLINE.

Religion is often and sometimes best kept as a private matter between the individual and their GOD, Church, preacher and family. No one
practices the same, much less perfectly if at all.

[Religious Preaching]

If you are including Quotes from the Bible in your discussions, then
you are preaching, this is not a religious echo and it is not allowed.
Please take and initiate those discussions elsewhere.

[Names]

Aliases/assumed names, handles are forbidden.

For purposes of this echo, the first and last name as presented in the
message headers are the acceptable names to refer to others.

Exceptions might be the normal dimunitive of some names such as but not limited to:

Robert: Rob, Robby, Bob, Bobby
Daniel: Dan, Danny
Richard: Rick, Dick, Ricky

So long as they are not used for demeaning purposes.

[Imported Content]

If you post a article of interest from elsewhere, the internet et al, do
not post without including or following it with some commentary and make
sure the source gets properly creditted. Posting the source URL is a
very good idea and in many cases preferable over posting the (entire)
article itself.

When posting Internet URL's if it cant fit on one line, try using one of
the URL services, like Tinyurl.

When posting articles, please make sure you format or reformat it so its
easily digestible by every ones readers.

When using a source, especially from the Internet, to support or make a
point, please keep in mind that one can find content anywhere on the
Internet to support their own point, position or idealogy. Dont expect
that any reference you cite to be taken as the gospel truth, remember
this hard truth, your opponent can also cite content to refute the point
you tried to make or to simply support his/her own point or position.

[Message Quoting]

When replying to messages in the open echo, you should quote back those
parts of the original message to remind the person and the other echo participants of what you are replying to. Please do not over-quote
messages if you are not addressing every point the original poster made.

*DO NOT* change the wording of any quoted text that you decide to include
in your reply to make it appear that the original author said something
that s/he did not..

BE VERY MINDFUL of nested message quotes, how various mail readers or
online editors do it, vary. On a routine basis, you will encounter a
message you want to reply to in which it contains quoted message text
from someone other than the person you are replying to said, especially
in a message thread that has had alot of life. If at all possible, unless
doing so would destroy context or render your reply meaningless, try to
not include nested quotes in your responses.

What you post versus what someone replies to, is beyond your control,
this means that no one is required to address every single point that
you might bring out in your messages. If you talked about A, B and C and someone only replied about B, then so be it. Get over it and get over yourself. No persons prose or point of view is so golden as to require
100% attention. No one is "running away" if they choose to not address everything you say.

[Taglines And Signature Lines]

Echo participants are not to be mocked in, by or otherwise be the
subject matter conveyed via taglines or header/signature/footer lines.

[Carbon Copying and Privacy]

Posting a identical message to multiple recipients in the open echo is forbidden. This wastes bandwidth and confuses message threads. If the
need arises, post a message to one recipient and reference any other individuals names in the message body.

Since by its nature, the echo can be read by all whom choose to take it,
every message is readable by all. John Doe can as easily see messages addressed to him as he could for messages addressed to All. Do not
complain when you address a message to one person and another chooses
to reply to it.

There is no expectation of privacy in the echo as far as the content of
the messages you post or have posted to you, if you desire privacy then
use private methods of communication. If there is information you do not
want publically known then do not post it or make it known how to access
this information. If you know intimate details about another participant
that you had knowledge of in which the participant did not want revealed,
do not reveal it. The exception being knowledge freely obtainable as
having been dessiminated publically, such as another echo, BBS or Internet website.

Messages addressed to you are fair game for anyone to reply to, remember
this is an open echo, not a private netmail or email inbox. However if
you do respond to a message that is addressed to someone else, do not
pretend to speak for or as that individual.

[Messages to 'ALL']

Messages posted to 'ALL' must meet and pass at least one of these tests:

* Posting a article or other missive to introduce a topic for debate.
(See the rule regarding imported content)

* Posting information which is conveying information relevant to the
entire echo membership or making an announcement.

Messages addressed to 'ALL' in which said message is technically a
message reply to an individual are forbidden. These messages are in
most cases an attempt to make the person whose name should have been in
the TO field, the topic for debate. In nearly every case, it is usually because someone has another twitted and the twitted still wants to get
in the last word. Being that this is a public echo, twitted or not the
entire echo membership will still get to see your "last word" even if
the person twitting you will not, therefore altering the TO field,
changes nothing.

[Open Doors]

Due to the nature of this echoes topic, there is going to be in most
cases an adversarial footing, meaning that your opponents will seek to
probe and prod you to find out your weaknesses or your strengths, but
more often the former. On any given topic whether it is about you or not,
you are responsible for the doors you open. If you say you did this, are
on that, then that is your problem if the information gets turned around
on you or turned on you.

When debating a opponent, for petes sake, have a leg to stand on when you
do so, we dont need bank robbers calling shoplifters, thieves.

The moderators in this case cannot be your Holy Protectors in this
instance.

[Truth, Lies And Those Not Here]

The moderators are not responsible for arbitrating or deciding the
factuality of any statement one member might make to or about another
fellow echo member or non-member.

The moderators are factoring in that the written message is not the best
form of communication, that each member comes from different beliefs
and lifetime experiences and that each and every one is an adult.

If you are slighted by another member with incorrect facts or outright
lies, there is no expectation that the person whom slighted you will
retract or apologize, hounding one for same will be considered
disruptive to the echo if said hounding starts dominating echo
discussions. If it comes to this point, both the accused and accuser
in addition to anyone else whom have chosen sides, will be asked to
stop the discussion with said discussion becoming off topic.

[Behavior]

Unfortunately, some will flame, be flamed or "feel" flamed, its how you
respond to them is what counts, ignore the person or ignore the flame.
Politics are a passionate topic for all those who take the time to
discuss it. (See tail end of this section)

With that said..

The CROSSFIRE echo IS NOT a FLAME ECHO! (MATZDOBRE echo is)

This echo is not a platform for the sole purpose to cast insults onto
another participant.

If you need to do so, take it to the MATZDOBRE echo.

The common list of swear words are not forbidden especially if used to reinforce emphasis. However using them for the sake of using them can
discredit your post. Spit spewing tirades will be dealt with on a case
by case basis.

Messages that only convey a personal slam are off topic, but will be
dealt with on a case by case basis.

If you are spending time retaliating against what you perceive as
attacks,do not expect moderator protection, sometimes a reprisal
often exceeds the level of the offense? When one wrestles with pigs, by
the time its over, all are so muddy that you cant tell the pigs apart.
The key is to not let everyone else know which of your buttons can be
pressed in which the pressing of them positively reinforces the idea in
their heads that they are getting to you. If you are truly the victim of
a flame or personal attack, then play that part and do not retaliate, do
not even respond to the attack. If you retaliate then chances for a
remedy are diminished. An analogy if you will, for those of you whom
are involved with or are fans of High School, College or Pro Football,
in many cases when a player is flagged for a personal foul up to being
ejected from the game, it is more often than not the player whom
retaliated that gets flagged and caught, not the player whom started
it. It is not always fair but it happens because as mentioned earlier
the retaliations often reach a level that is more severe than the
initial offense.

[Twit Filters]

Twit Filters, if ones reader is so equipped, can block out the messages
of those whom might be irritating, abrasive, abusive etc. You are
encouraged to employ one if you can, if it means enhancing your own
usage of this echo and to prevent you from surrendering to the natural temptation of sinking to the level of behavior as what your opponent
might be partaking in.

A word to the wise on using a twit filter:

* Dont let your antagonizer (twit) know that you are placing them into
your filter. For that matter, do not let anyone else know that you are
going to put someone into your twit filter or have already twit filtered
someone. Simply quietly do it and be done with it.

* Despite popular belief, twit filtering someone is still a two way street,
this means that if you are using a tool to prevent yourself from seeing
someone elses messages, you yourself cannot take pot shots at the person
you have filtered in messages to others, knowing full well that you wont
get to see their responses. DONT DO IT!

The moderators recognise that you will be able to see messages addressed to
a person you may have twitted and you might see parts of their messages included in quoted message replies. However once you cross the threshold
in twitting someone, that person should no longer exist as far as you are concerned. When in doubt, just remember that this echo is not for flames or
a platform to take potshots. A twit filter is to protect you from abuse,
not a shield to hide behind so that you can hurl it back with impunity.

A word to the wise if you know or think you are in someones twit filter:

* Do not do anything to defeat someones twit filter, up to and including
the spelling of your name.

* If someone stops replying to your messages, take it to heart that they
do not want to communicate with you.

[Fidonet Policy]

Fidonet Policy defines echomail as a different flavor of netmail, to
that extent, that is the only binding thing Fidonet Policy has on this
echo.

Nothing that gets said in this echo can be used to file any Fidonet
Policy Complaints, except in rare cases in which someone is posting or formatting messages in a way that is known to crash the messaging
processing software of one or more systems, because the message was too
large, a specific size or some other deliberate malformation of message control fields or lines.

Nodelisted sysops cannot use Fidonet Policy against non-nodelisted
individuals and non-nodelisted individuals cannot wield Fidonet Policy
at all.

[Moderator rulings and echo moderation]

Leave the moderating of this echo to the moderators.

DO NOT publically call upon the moderators to enforce the rules, the moderators are not your Holy Protectors and are the sole interpreters of
the rules and as to what will be acted upon and when.

The Moderators reserve the right to determine the rules for this echo,
when a rule has been broken, whether or not to enforce a rule, when in
doubt, leave the moderating of the echo to the moderators.

This rule set cannot possibly cover every possible scenario or event that
could be defined as disruptive to this echo, therefore the moderators are
not confined to only those things elaborated on in this rule set. If the
need arises, the moderators reserve the right to act upon and rule out of bounds any activity that disrupts the echo, challenges moderator authority despite not being spelled out within this rule set.. Meaning the rules are subject to change at anytime with or without warning. Translation, the
rules are dynamic, not static.

Coming into the echo to complain about it or how it is moderated is
forbidden, entry and usage of this echo is voluntary, if you dont like what you see, then use the same freedom of choice to go elsewhere.

Putting conditions on the moderator in order for you to control your own behavior is forbidden, this means you cannot demand the moderator do a specific thing you demanded in order for you to stop a certain
behavior. Make a demand like this and watch your access go away.

If you are a moderator of another echo in which you proclaim to have a better echo, rule set or style and you behave disruptively in here that contradicts your own posture and philosophy from your own echo, then you will be held to the standards you demand in your echo. The rule of thumb here is to
follow this echoes rules and worry about your own echo within your own
echo.

Disciplinary actions taken because of a rule violation will be
determined on a case by case basis and by the moderators. Do not expect
or demand a particular punishment for any rule violation you might
witness. It is hoped that only warnings are necessary, such warning or
other moderator actions to be either or both dessiminated publically or privately.

Your moderators are:

Ross Cassell, 1:123/500 or 1:123/456 E-Mail: rcassell[at]gmail[dot]com

**NOTE**

References made to 'email' mean that mail which is privately distributed
over the internet. The moderators recognise that email, being a shortened version for 'electronic mail', could be defined as any type of message dessiminated electronically, such as but not limited to a public fidonet echomail message. However, in this case these definitions apply:

Netmail:

System to System messages, semi-private, meaning that if the message is
written by a non-sysop, the message is readable by the sysop of the
system a user wrote the message from and if sent to another non-sysop,
the sysop of the system the message was sent to. Due to the way netmail
is transported, often routed through intermediary systems, netmail can
be read by the sysops of the systems that message traverses and at a
minimum by the sysops of the source and target systems. Ordinarily you
wont have too many issues here but you should be aware that you do not
have total privacy here and that netmail messages are readable by others
under certain scenarios. The exception to this would be if a sysop sends
a netmail message directly to another sysops system in which the sending
sysop is the the author and the receiving sysop is the intended recipient
of the message, in this case there is privacy.

Echomail:

Publically readable messages. Anyone can read these messages whom take
the echo area they are in. These messages are why you are here. In many
cases users can access older messages that exist in an area before they
joined said echo area. There is no expectation of privacy when writing messages in this form.

Email:

Internet Email (Hi BK)... If you want privacy, then use this!
---
* Origin: The Moderator (1:123/500)