Aaron Thomas wrote to Daniel <=-
brutality, police corruption, or worse. It's about demolishing our government in an effort to reform the US into a communist or socialist cesspool.
Let's see what they get out of all this.
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for
commissioned officers are as follows:
brutality, police corruption, or worse. It's about demolishing our >Da>government in an effort to reform the US into a communist or socialist >Da>cesspool.
Let's see what they get out of all this.
Police corruption would be a first. The autopsy coming out saying he died of >other things was a clear indication of a fundamental problem. But these are >regional things. Some areas, like the large metro areas, are obviously
worse.
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:
Actually, the oath of office is slightly different:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which
I
am about to enter: So help me God."
(You can omit the "so help me god" part if you want.)
Whenever I did someone's reenlistment, I would ask them
ahead of time whether they wanted to swear or affirm and
whether they wanted the god part.
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:
Actually, the oath of office is slightly different:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domest >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on whi
I
am about to enter: So help me God."
(You can omit the "so help me god" part if you want.)
In both, the Constitution is listed first in their oath.
These insane Democrat protesters are making people feel uncomfortable.
In my town, they didn't burn down Target yet, but they burned down a beautiful, deluxe children's playground.
Did the toddlers in my rural upstate NY town have ties to Chauvin?
These insane Democrat protesters are making people feel uncomfortable.
In my town, they didn't burn down Target yet, but they burned down a >beautiful, deluxe children's playground.
Did the toddlers in my rural upstate NY town have ties to Chauvin?
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:
Actually, the oath of office is slightly different:
domest LL> >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this LL> >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and
purpose of evasion; LL> >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on whi LL> > I
am about to enter: So help me God."
(You can omit the "so help me god" part if you want.)
In both, the Constitution is listed first in their oath.
Yes. Because that is the most important thing.
But if you're going to say the oath of office says something, you
should be accurate.
But if you're going to say the oath of office says something, you
should be accurate.
Here is the version I posted. As far as I know, it is accurate.
Please feel free to post your own. If it is any different, I am
sure we will all know soon enough.
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for
commissioned officers are as follows:
I have one question for every commissioned officer in this land.
Just one -
"Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"
You have publicly stated that you are (or have been) a commissioned officer. The president is commander-in-chief, which is a military rank. IOW, the president is your superior. Your CO, or commanding officer.
Your CO has given you an order to shoot, with live ammo, other
Americans. Do you comply? Even if those other Americans are just
young black kids stealing shoes from department stores.
This very situation happened in New Orleans after Katrina.
Fortunately for those young black kids, General Honor‚ refused
to comply with his CO's request.
Today's officers have no balls, as shown by their recent actions.
But if you're going to say the oath of office says something, you >LL>>should be accurate.sure we will all know soon enough.
Here is the version I posted. As far as I know, it is accurate. >LL>Please feel free to post your own. If it is any different, I am
What you posted is the oath of _enlistment_.
The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for >LL>commissioned officers are as follows:
No. I already corrected you and posted the full text of
the oath of office, which is different from the oath of
enlistment.
This really isn't hard to verify, but from >https://www.army.mil/values/officers.html:
Oath of Commissioned Officers
-----------------------------
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the >Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; >that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this >obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and >that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which
I
am about to enter. So help me God. (Title 5 U.S. Code 3331, an individual, >except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit
in
the civil service or uniformed services)
---end---
You will notice that the text of the two oaths is different.
You correctly quoted the oath of office later, but not in
your earlier message.
As I said before, if you're going to make a statement
about this, you have an obligation to at least be accurate.
And this is so trivially easy to verify.
I have one question for every commissioned officer in this land.
Just one -
"Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"
The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all members
of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but
they have an obligation to actively resist those orders.
You have publicly stated that you are (or have been) a commissioned >LL>officer. The president is commander-in-chief, which is a military rank. >LL>IOW, the president is your superior. Your CO, or commanding officer.
I am a Marine, and yes, I was a commissioned officer (I was
also enlisted before being commissioned). However, I have
been honorably discharged for some time now; so no, he's not
my CIC (which is not the same as one's CO, which usually
refers to one's immediate commander).
Your CO has given you an order to shoot, with live ammo, other >LL>Americans. Do you comply? Even if those other Americans are just
young black kids stealing shoes from department stores.
See above. No, you do not. The UCMJ is very clear on this.
This very situation happened in New Orleans after Katrina.
Fortunately for those young black kids, General Honor‚ refused
to comply with his CO's request.
Today's officers have no balls, as shown by their recent actions.
I know a number of officers who'd take exception to
that and who have demonstrated, through their actions
both in peacetime and under fire, that you're full of
shit if you think that.
Indeed, even in the last 48 hours, a number of retired
and some active duty military officers have put their
money where their mouths are and reaffirmed their
dedication to their oath and the Constitution.
And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane
and shut the fuck up about the military.
Notice I did not mention anything about "oath of office" in my
original post. In my next post, to you, I quoted the oath of office
for the president, who never served in the military or swore any
oath of enlistment/oath for commissioned officers.
Just so we are both on the same page, here it is with url -
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all members
of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but
they have an obligation to actively resist those orders.
And yet, the joint chiefs of staff went along with their
president as he ordered active military to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds. The
soldiers did as they were told, using rubber bullets, pepper
spray, and tear gas to mow everybody down.
When the president (as C-in-C) gives a soldier a direct order,
that soldier is expected to comply. The president is not going
to ask a soldier to go find his/her CO, as the president is at
that very moment his/her CO.
Disobeying a direct order, especially during a time of war, can get
a soldier shot. Or stripped of rank and privilege. How many would be willing to take that chance?
I am sure you do know a number of officers you *think* would take exception to what has recently taken place with Trump ordering active military to open fire on peaceful protesters, with the full blessing
of his joint chiefs of staff. But how many of those you know actually would, when put to the test?
Talk is cheap. Especially when your own head is not on the line.
Active duty military, when ordered by their president to do his
bidding, will do as they are told. General Honor‚ was and is an
honorable man, who did stand up to power when his time of testing
came. Told the governor to take a flying hike, rather than have
his soldiers fire using live ammunation on kids stealing shoes
in department stores.
And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane
and shut the fuck up about the military.
Silence is complicity. Which is what made Hitler great.
I will not be silent, and neither should anybody else.
We do not need another Hitler. Especially one with orange
hair. Even if he doesn't have a funny moustache. Hell,
his shade of orange skin is bad enough ...
Notice I did not mention anything about "oath of office" in my
original post. In my next post, to you, I quoted the oath of office
for the president, who never served in the military or swore any
oath of enlistment/oath for commissioned officers.
Stop doubling down when you're wrong: it's not a good look.
Just so we are both on the same page, here it is with url -
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html
I already posted a URL. Do you just insist on being right?
Okay. You're right.
The UCMJ is quite clear on this: not only do all memberspresident as he ordered active military to open fire on peaceful
of the military have a right to ignore illegal orders, but
they have an obligation to actively resist those orders.
And yet, the joint chiefs of staff went along with their
protesters (mostly women and children) on church grounds. The
soldiers did as they were told, using rubber bullets, pepper
spray, and tear gas to mow everybody down.
No, that was the National Guard and park police, plus
some kind of secret police formed from the Bureau of
Prisons. Those were not active duty troops.
When the president (as C-in-C) gives a soldier a direct order,
that soldier is expected to comply. The president is not going
to ask a soldier to go find his/her CO, as the president is at
that very moment his/her CO.
No. The "soldier" (note, I'm a Marine, not a soldier) is
only expected to comply if, and only if, the order is legal.
Yes, all members of the US military are given training on
legal and illegal orders. Yes, it is explained from entry
training onwards that illegal orders are to be actively
resisted.
Disobeying a direct order, especially during a time of war, can get
a soldier shot. Or stripped of rank and privilege. How many would be >LL>willing to take that chance?
Pretty much all. As I've said now, repeatedly, but for
some unfathomable reason you seem incapable of absorbing,
servicemembers are under no obligation to follow illegal
orders, and ignoring such an order is not considered
"disobeying a direct order."
I am sure you do know a number of officers you *think* would take >LL>exception to what has recently taken place with Trump ordering active >LL>military to open fire on peaceful protesters, with the full blessing
of his joint chiefs of staff. But how many of those you know actually >LL>would, when put to the test?
Given that I've seen them do it in combat, I'm willing to
bet pretty much all of them wouldn't have a problem telling
a 5x draft dodger who considered avoiding STDs in Studio 54
his "personal Vietnam" where to shove it.
Gen Milley shouted the president down in the Oval Office
the other day.
Talk is cheap. Especially when your own head is not on the line.
Active duty military, when ordered by their president to do his >LL>bidding, will do as they are told. General Honor‚ was and is an >LL>honorable man, who did stand up to power when his time of testing
came. Told the governor to take a flying hike, rather than have
his soldiers fire using live ammunation on kids stealing shoes
in department stores.
You speak with a confidence that is unwarranted given your
ignorance of the matter and overall lack of experience with
the subject.
You should stop.
And now, respectfully, you should stay in your lane
and shut the fuck up about the military.
Silence is complicity. Which is what made Hitler great.
I'm pretty sure I've been pretty vocal about what I think
about Trump. How dare you evoke Hitler when discussing the
US military.
You're the douche who posted that you had COVID-19 and then
tried to scurry behind a lame excuse of quoting someone.
I will not be silent, and neither should anybody else.
You have every right to say whatever you want.
I have the right to judge you as a sanctimonious ass who's ignorance and
arrogance and propensity for writing walls of unintelligible text do more harm to the causes you claim to care about than they do good.
We do not need another Hitler. Especially one with orange
hair. Even if he doesn't have a funny moustache. Hell,
his shade of orange skin is bad enough ...
Indeed. Perhaps you can get with the program and actually try
and help get rid of the scourge currently occupying the White
House? Posting uninformed claptrap about the military isn't
helping.
Which would you rather be? A saint or a sinner?
Which would you rather be? A saint or a sinner?
You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trump
asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
shouted down by Milley.
Esper got slapped down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
see troops confronted with the awful choice of potentially starting a coup
by disobeying illegal orders.
The interplay between civilian and military leadership is subtle and
requires great care to avoid setting a precedent that you clearly
cannot fathom the consequences of.
You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trump
asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
shouted down by Milley.
General Milley took an oath to defend the Constitution
of the United States, yet refused to do so, as shown by
his actions.
General Mark Milley, decked out in combat fatigues, marched
lock-step with Donald Trump to the church as orders were given
for National Guard to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly
women and children, along with clergy). Did Donald Trump fire
General Milley after he wrote a memo and said a few words?
Nope. General Milley is still Trump's guy. As if nothing has
happened to spoil their fine relationship. What a guy!
Rather than defending the Constitution of the United States,
the thing to do is to support and defend the president!
After all, the president doesn't care about the Constitution
of the United States, as shown by his hatred of "we the people."
Esper got slapped down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
see troops confronted with the awful choice of potentially starting a cou
by disobeying illegal orders.
Like your dear friend Milley, Esper also took an oath to defend
the Constitution of the United States rather than the president.
But like Milley, he chose to do nothing to stop the president
from having his way in going to war against the American people.
So, by your lights it is perfectly okay for Americans to kill
other Americans, as they would only be "following orders" of a
president gone mad. That line of defense did not work out so
well for Germans who were prosecuted at Nuremburg. I wonder how
well that defense will work out for those who followed the illegal
orders of their commander-in-chief?
General Honor‚ (who also took the same oath as you) had the good
sense not to obey the illegal orders given to him by Governor "Bobby" Jindal, who wanted National Guardsmen to use live ammo to kill young
black boys who were looting department stores in New Orleans. Talk
about a helluva price to pay for stealing shoes, wouldn't you say?
Back to the crowd at St. John's church -
You know as well as I do that nobody in that crowd deserved to be
shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, or tear gas. It was a peaceful protest, allowed under our US Constitution, and your fine president
and fellow officers could have cared less. They did what they did
because the US Constitution means nothing to them. And peoples lives
mean even less.
Black Lives Matter. To all of us. Not just to blacks.
We the people have a Constitutional right to exercise *all* freedoms noted. You might want to take some time and actually read what the US Constitution says, including all the amendments.
You can start with the Preamble and go from there. It should not
take you long to finish, as the US Constitution is less than 5,000
words total (including amendments).
It doesn't take much to understand that murder is murder.
I condemn *all* acts of violence. So should you, and everyone
else.
A huge orange grin smiling at ya.
You're just a sanctimonious douche. Trumpof the United States, yet refused to do so, as shown by
asked for 10,000 active duty troops and got
shouted down by Milley.
General Milley took an oath to defend the Constitution
his actions.
Trump might have told Milley, "Take a walk with me."
That, in itself, was not an illegal order. What should
be have done differently?
That doesn't mean that Milley sanctioned using police
to clear out that park.
That doesn't mean Milley supported sending in active duty troops, as we know
he didn't.
Milley has to walk a fine line of reigning in Trump and keeping
politics out of the military.
Get off your high horse.
You make assumptions about things you don't know and act like others
who don't make those same assumptions are complicit with your imagined
wrong-doings.
General Mark Milley, decked out in combat fatigues, marched
lock-step with Donald Trump to the church as orders were given
for National Guard to open fire on peaceful protesters (mostly
women and children, along with clergy). Did Donald Trump fire
General Milley after he wrote a memo and said a few words?
Nope. General Milley is still Trump's guy. As if nothing has
happened to spoil their fine relationship. What a guy!
Milley has no real authority over the guard in this
case. That's on the governors. He's wearing fatigues
because that's the uniform of the day.
You DO realize I find Trump's use of force to clear
Lafayette Park repugnant, right? You DO realize I
abhor his perversion of the guard for a cheap photo
op, right? You're not only preaching to the choir,
the spittle flying from your frothing mouth is hitting
me in the face.
Rather than defending the Constitution of the United States,
the thing to do is to support and defend the president!
After all, the president doesn't care about the Constitution
of the United States, as shown by his hatred of "we the people."
You're so convinced of your interpretation that you
can't see how you could even possibly be misreading
the situation.
cou by disobeying illegal orders.Esper got slapped down by the chiefs, which is why you don't
see troops confronted with the awful choice of potentially starting a
Like your dear friend Milley, Esper also took an oath to defendthe Constitution of the United States rather than the president.
Indeed. And Esper came out against this.
Milley shouted down Trump in a meeting.
Now the guard is being pulled from DC.
The generals won this one.
What would you have rather been done?
They through a hissy fit like you and get sacked until Trump finds some
asshole willing to do what he wants?
Or they exert pressure behinds the scenes and stave off a coup until the
election?
You can't see the bigger picture.
But like Milley, he chose to do nothing to stop the president
from having his way in going to war against the American people.
He literally shouted him down in a meeting. Trump wanted
10,000 active duty troops to flood DC and Milley told him
to fuck off.
So, by your lights it is perfectly okay for Americans to kill
other Americans, as they would only be "following orders" of a >LL>president gone mad. That line of defense did not work out so
well for Germans who were prosecuted at Nuremburg. I wonder how
well that defense will work out for those who followed the illegal >LL>orders of their commander-in-chief?
Fuck off you sanctimonious douche.
How dare you accuse me of supporting this asshole or his
idiotic abuse of the military. Pull the tree out of your
ass and act like an adult for a minute: what Trump is doing
is far from ok. But blinding falling on our swords isn't
going to do anyone any favors and will only make the
situation orders of magnitude worse.
General Honor‚ (who also took the same oath as you) had the good
sense not to obey the illegal orders given to him by Governor "Bobby" >LL>Jindal, who wanted National Guardsmen to use live ammo to kill young >LL>black boys who were looting department stores in New Orleans. Talk >LL>about a helluva price to pay for stealing shoes, wouldn't you say?
Apples and oranges.
Back to the crowd at St. John's church -
You know as well as I do that nobody in that crowd deserved to be
shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, or tear gas. It was a peaceful >LL>protest, allowed under our US Constitution, and your fine president
and fellow officers could have cared less. They did what they did >LL>because the US Constitution means nothing to them. And peoples lives >LL>mean even less.
Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
I'll wait.
That's your misinterpretation because you're so goddamn drunk on your own
faux moral superiority and love to hear yourself talk that you never stop
to see if people are agreeing with you.
I bet you're just the life of the parties you go to.
On the other hand, you seem to think it's funny to joke
about having COVID-19. Is that because you don't care
about the 100,000 Americans who have died because your
fine president couldn't be bothered to get off the golf
course and deal with the pandemic like a real leader?
Black Lives Matter. To all of us. Not just to blacks.
You say that, but your jokes about COVID-19 betray a
different viewpoint. You obviously don't care, because
COVID-19 has disproportionately affected black and minority
communities and you seem to think it's fine material for
a joke. You and your president should go golfing together,
you obviously have a lot in common. Members of the latinx
community are also hard hit; do you still think your joke
was appropriate? How about kids in cages in concentration
camps? Do you approve of that, too? I mean, your president
does. He also jokes about COVID-19, I'm sure.
We the people have a Constitutional right to exercise *all* freedoms >LL>noted. You might want to take some time and actually read what the US >LL>Constitution says, including all the amendments.
So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protests
without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.
You can start with the Preamble and go from there. It should not
take you long to finish, as the US Constitution is less than 5,000 >LL>words total (including amendments).
Can I borrow your pocket constitution, or did you leave it
at the bird refugee with the other right-wingers?
It doesn't take much to understand that murder is murder.
I condemn *all* acts of violence. So should you, and everyone
else.
Then why do you joke about COVID-19?
A huge orange grin smiling at ya.
Seems like you support him based on what you do.
Milley was there, along with his dearly beloved president, supporting those National Guardsmen who followed the illegal orders given them.
I quoted the text of the oath of office for the president.
I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the
Constitution of the United States.
Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.
Who gave the orders for the National Guard to open fire on
peaceful protesters? Washington DC is not a state. No governors
there to give the orders. Who gave the orders? You should know,
being retired military.
Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
I'll wait.
General Milley said it was okay, by being there with Trump.
Defending Milley's actions is the same as saying the crowd deserved
what they got.
The first cases of COVID-19 in the USA were in February.
Mark my words, nine months from February will come the first
coronababies of the year ...
So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protests
without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.
Do realize none of those peaceful protesters have COVID-19. It is
only those from outside their communities who are infected. So why
wear a mask? Really no need. Unless one wanted to masquerade as a
member of the press.
Download a digital copy. Plenty of free copies available.
Take as many as you want. Spread them around for others to read.
That will make you a true patriot. Of course, you might have to
explain it to them, and teach them what it all means ...
We joke about everything else. So why not COVID-19?
Can't leave anything out these days. Otherwise folks
will call you a bigot. Or a racist. Or both.
Donald Trump has done the one thing no other president has
ever been able to do. He brought us all together.
That's right. Donald Trump is a uniter, not a divider.
Remember. You heard it here first.
Milley was there, along with his dearly beloved president, supporting >LL>those National Guardsmen who followed the illegal orders given them.
You don't know that he loves your dear president.
I quoted the text of the oath of office for the president.
Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
you want everyone to know how you feel about him?
I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the >LL>Constitution of the United States.
Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorant
you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.
Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.
I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
it was?
Who gave the orders for the National Guard to open fire on
peaceful protesters? Washington DC is not a state. No governors
there to give the orders. Who gave the orders? You should know,
being retired military.
Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.
Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.
You are so ignorant that you throw these terms around
without even knowing the first thing about what they
mean or how the military works. Typical right-wing
Trumper.
Hey asshole, point out where I ever said that anyone
in that crowd deserved what happened to them? Go ahead,
I'll wait.
General Milley said it was okay, by being there with Trump.
No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that what
happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.
Defending Milley's actions is the same as saying the crowd deserved >LL>what they got.
Milley wasn't even there when the crowd was attacked.
You're extrapolating without acknowledging any room for possibly being
wrong. That's typical Trump supporter behavior.
The first cases of COVID-19 in the USA were in February.
Nope. They were far earlier.
Mark my words, nine months from February will come the first >LL>coronababies of the year ...
So you're OK with everything the Trump administration
does, then?
You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?
You're fine with the way that people of color, particularly African
Americans, are disproportionately affected by this pandemic?
Meanwhile, you fully support your president.
So are you going to show up at one of those reopening protestswear a mask? Really no need. Unless one wanted to masquerade as a >LL>member of the press.
without a mask and with a gun like the other right-wing nutjobs?
You clearly don't care about BLM and you clearly don't take
COVID-19 very seriously, so you'd probably fit right in.
Do realize none of those peaceful protesters have COVID-19. It is >LL>only those from outside their communities who are infected. So why
Right-wing groups have stated publicly that they've
had members infiltrate protests while infected with
COVID-19 to deliberately spread the virus. I guess
you're ok with that, since your president told you
there was nothing to worry about. Do you plan on going
to a Trump rally without a mask now that they are being
restarted?
Download a digital copy. Plenty of free copies available.
Take as many as you want. Spread them around for others to read.
That will make you a true patriot. Of course, you might have to
explain it to them, and teach them what it all means ...
Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go
bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.
We joke about everything else. So why not COVID-19?
Can't leave anything out these days. Otherwise folks
will call you a bigot. Or a racist. Or both.
Yeah, not, you can leave some things out in the name
of decency. But if you're a Trump lover, you don't.
Seems pretty clear to me that you're a fan of your
Dear Leader.
Donald Trump has done the one thing no other president has
ever been able to do. He brought us all together.
So you're saying you support Trump.
That's right. Donald Trump is a uniter, not a divider.
Remember. You heard it here first.
At least we now know who you really support.
You don't know that he loves your dear president.
He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.
Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
you want everyone to know how you feel about him?
To remind you the oath of office requires the president to defend
the Constitution of the United States.
I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the >LL>Constitution of the United States.
Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorant
you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.
Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.
I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
it was?
Milley chose to defend the president, rather than the Constution
of the United States. IOW, he violated the very oath he took as an officer. Meaning he is not an honorable man, or a gentleman.
Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.
Which brings us back to the original question I asked at
the beginning of this thread -
"Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"
Given that you are retired military, and no longer active, it is
a question you can easily dodge by claiming you are too old or some
other chickenshit excuse.
However, the military man who originally
asked the question answered it himself by his own actions - by
joining the president as troops opened fire on peaceful protesters
who lawfully did their thing on holy ground.
Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.
So was Jack Nicholson, with a bit of help from Tom Cruise.
Please. Tell us how you did it. Was your road trip every bit
as fun as the one Jack took?
Hey. What do you expect? I'm a civvie. Just like Trump!
Born to be wild ...
No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that what
happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.
All of the protesters were peaceful, lawfully protesting
what they viewed as a wrong. It was others who had infiltrated
their ranks who were causing trouble, as they had no interest
in actually protesting a thing.
You see, trouble is where you find it. And those troublemakers
knew exactly where to go in order to find the kind of trouble they
could make.
Most, if not all, of the troublemakers were right-wing radicals.
What we have, in effect, is a president gone mad. A president who
wants to make war on peaceful protesters, who have a Constitutional
right to protest.
There are pictures on social media verifying this for anybody
who bothers taking a look.
You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?
We cure ourselves by dying faster. That is the new plan.
If one can call it that.
Why are more African Americans dying, and at a faster rate, than
other groups? Because they are the ones who keep us fed, and keep
us clothed, and keep us housed.
Meanwhile, you fully support your president.
What kind of oath did you take?
Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go
bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.
Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States?
It is a beautiful document, written on parchment, although
the ink is brown and kinda fading ...
I support the will of the people. Whatever that happens to be.
You don't know that he loves your dear president.
He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.
As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.
Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter
you want everyone to know how you feel about him?
To remind you the oath of office requires the president to defend >LL>the Constitution of the United States.
So you don't refute that you're a Trump supporter.
Got it.
I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those
who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the
Constitution of the United States.
Military officers aren't enlisted. You're so ignorantyou don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.
You stated that officers are enlisted and swear the
oath of enlistment. They aren't and don't. I thought
that you Trumpers were really big on humping the
military's leg? As a Good Little Right-Winger, shouldn't
you know that?
of the United States. IOW, he violated the very oath he took as an >LL>officer. Meaning he is not an honorable man, or a gentleman.Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there
to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.
I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said
it was?
Milley chose to defend the president, rather than the Constution
No no no.
You made a specific statement, that _I_ believe that the military is here to
defend the president. Don't try to deflect.
Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.the beginning of this thread -
Which brings us back to the original question I asked at
"Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"
And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, nor
was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
military officers do.
But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so
this is unsurprising.
Do you support his little concentration camps for kids, or cracking down on
protesters?
Given that you are retired military, and no longer active, it is
I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specific
status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
I am honorably discharged.
a question you can easily dodge by claiming you are too old or some >LL>other chickenshit excuse.
I don't see how I need to "dodge" the question since I
answered it clearly and unequivocally. Perhaps you didn't
understand the answer, or it didn't fit with your
preconceptions, and so you are having a hard time either
understanding or accepting it?
However, the military man who originally
asked the question answered it himself by his own actions - by
joining the president as troops opened fire on peaceful protesters
who lawfully did their thing on holy ground.
Except he actually wasn't there for the clearing of Lafayette
park.
Knowing that you support Trump, I understand that you have a hard time with
facts and nuance.
Oh, and I never said I was retired. I am discharged.Please. Tell us how you did it. Was your road trip every bit
So was Jack Nicholson, with a bit of help from Tom Cruise.
as fun as the one Jack took?
Uh...you join, you serve, and you get out.
If you never do anything illegal or immoral while in, you likely get an
honorable discharge;
possibly a medical, which is technically a general discharge, though under
honorable circumstances.
It's really not that hard, though it probably doesn't mesh
with your biases, which may be why you have such a hard time
understanding it. That may also have something to do with
your love for your president and Dear Leader, Donald Trump.
Hey. What do you expect? I'm a civvie. Just like Trump!
Born to be wild ...
You even revel in being like him! Amazing.
No no no. You said that _I_ was thought that whatwhat they viewed as a wrong. It was others who had infiltrated
happened to those protesters was deserved. Don't
deflect; tell me where _I_ said that. Be specific.
All of the protesters were peaceful, lawfully protesting
their ranks who were causing trouble, as they had no interest
in actually protesting a thing.
No no no. You're trying to change the subject again.
You said that _I_ said those protesters deserved what
happened to them. Tell me exactly where I said that.
Exactly. Go ahead; I'll wait.
You see, trouble is where you find it. And those troublemakers
knew exactly where to go in order to find the kind of trouble they >LL>could make.
Most, if not all, of the troublemakers were right-wing radicals.
Your kinda people, huh?
You want to see people in cages.
You want to see the police beat people on the street.
You want to see a Trump dictatorship.
What we have, in effect, is a president gone mad. A president who
wants to make war on peaceful protesters, who have a Constitutional >LL>right to protest.
So why are you such a booster of his?
There are pictures on social media verifying this for anybody
who bothers taking a look.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/06/08/timeline-trump-church-
photo-op/
You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?If one can call it that.
We cure ourselves by dying faster. That is the new plan.
I can see you're perfectly fine with Trump's handling of
the pandemic.
Why are more African Americans dying, and at a faster rate, than
other groups? Because they are the ones who keep us fed, and keep
us clothed, and keep us housed.
So you're fine with keeping black people oppressed as long
as you are kept in clothing, housing and fed? That's basically
what you're saying.
Meanwhile, you fully support your president.
What kind of oath did you take?
We're not talking about me; we're talking about you
and your support for Trump.
Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and goIt is a beautiful document, written on parchment, although
bowling. Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.
Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States?
the ink is brown and kinda fading ...
It's not me that hates it; it's you. You and your
fellow Trump supporters, who align yourselves with
those who pervert it and its meaning to retain your
hold on power. It's really sad.
I support the will of the people. Whatever that happens to be.
So you're ok with the right-wing putting kids in
concentration camps. With Trump destroying the planet
and the presidency. With murder of black and brown
bodies in the name of "law and order". With over a
hundred thousand of your fellow Americans dying.
Wow.
And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, nor
was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
military officers do.
Notice the president and his entourage waited until the protesters
had been cleared for them to make their appearance at the church.
Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you would do
in certain situations.
If during a time of war your commanding officer gives you a
sidearm and tells you to take a prisoner to headquarters and
return in fifteen minutes, you would do it - even though it
would take you a full hour driving through heavy fighting in
enemy territory. You would do it just to save your own sorry
skin, knowing what your commanding officer would do to you
if you failed to follow that order.
Soldiers exist to follow orders. That's it. They are not there
to think. Only to do what they are told. Nothing more, nothing
less. The commander in chief is head honcho, and all his toy
soldiers and sailors and airmen are compelled to comply. Even
his spacemen, although not really sure what branch the space
force is supposed to be part of. In Robert Heinlein's world the
spacemen were Marines. But this is Trumpland ...
But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so
this is unsurprising.
I said I wear a red hat and have a huge banner on my wall.
How does that make me a Trump supporter?
I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specific
status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
I am honorably discharged.
So is US Senator Tammy Duckworth. But at least you still have legs
to stand on. Unlike so many others, some who have lost far more.
--Lee
And I answered that unequivocally: No. I am not, norNotice the president and his entourage waited until the protesters
was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal
order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so. You
evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree
with me on what I would do and what I have seen other
military officers do.
had been cleared for them to make their appearance at the church.
Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you would doin certain situations.
Actually, haven been in situations like that, I do.
If during a time of war your commanding officer gives you a
sidearm and tells you to take a prisoner to headquarters and
return in fifteen minutes, you would do it - even though it
would take you a full hour driving through heavy fighting in
enemy territory. You would do it just to save your own sorry
skin, knowing what your commanding officer would do to you
if you failed to follow that order.
Are you describing yourself?
Because you sure as shit aren't describing _me_.
I've been in situations like that and know full-well what I'd do.
Soldiers exist to follow orders. That's it. They are not there
to think. Only to do what they are told. Nothing more, nothing
less. The commander in chief is head honcho, and all his toy
soldiers and sailors and airmen are compelled to comply. Even
his spacemen, although not really sure what branch the space
force is supposed to be part of. In Robert Heinlein's world the >LL>spacemen were Marines. But this is Trumpland ...
That's one of the most laughable things I've ever read.
That's empirically not true. Maybe for bootlickers like
you who want to follow Trump off an authoritarian cliff.
But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, soI said I wear a red hat and have a huge banner on my wall.
this is unsurprising.
How does that make me a Trump supporter?
Your statements and actions do, symbols aside.
I am not retired, as I told you. That's a very specificSo is US Senator Tammy Duckworth. But at least you still have legs
status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.
I am honorably discharged.
to stand on. Unlike so many others, some who have lost far more.
What does that have to do with anything?
But since you brought here up.... Why don't you go tell
Sen Duckworth that she was there to only follow orders,
not to think, and that she'd commit war crimes if told
to do so by Donald Trump? She may have lost her legs to
the RPG round that hit her Blackhawk, but I'll bet she'd
tear you apart so fast you'd have no idea what hit you.
--Lee
The rest of your post was an incoherent wall of text.
Very well.
*PLoNk!*
Actually, haven been in situations like that, I do.
Prove it.
Hello Dan,
You don't know that he loves your dear president.
He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.
As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.
Just because I have a red cap on my head that says Make America
Great Again doesn't mean what you think it means ...
You don't know that he loves your dear president.
He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.
As are you! Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.Great Again doesn't mean what you think it means ...
Just because I have a red cap on my head that says Make America
It should be obvious as to what Make America Great Again this means, but if >you believe differently then there is the problem.
If you would like examples as to why America is greater under Trump than >Obama. Let me know.
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