• My door game

    From calcmandan@77:1/110 to All on Wed Mar 18 23:11:06 2020
    So I'm knee deep in concept design for my new door game. Since I"m doing it in Pascal, inspired by LORD, I'd like to know what tools you all use when designing ANSI screens.

    Side note, I'm assuming most people use 80 columns. I'm considering a 40 column mode for C64 players (it would be tight to play a modern door game with one). So, with that in mind, I'm wanting to design ANSI screens for the game.

    I only run linux at home so that's my limitation. But I do have WINE. I know it can be looked up on google but yall's preferences are better than a search engine.

    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 02:36:22 2020
    So I'm knee deep in concept design for my new door game. Since I"m doing it in Pascal, inspired by LORD, I'd like to know what tools you all use when designing ANSI screens.

    I personally use Moebius which is open source and cross platform (http://www.andyh.org/moebius/) there are others that you can run in Linux,
    but Moebius is regularly updated and offers some great tools to help you
    along with drawing stuff.

    Side note, I'm assuming most people use 80 columns. I'm considering a 40 column mode for C64 players (it would be tight to play a modern door
    game with one). So, with that in mind, I'm wanting to design ANSI
    screens for the game.

    As someone who started bbsing and being a sysop on a c64, that is an awesome idea (i'm working on bringing my old c64 bbs back online). You will want to draw your screens in Petscii then and not ansi and most c64 bbses only
    support petscii. Petmate (https://nurpax.github.io/petmate/) is a great cross platform opensource editor that you can also run under linux.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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  • From Dumas Walker@77:1/115 to NETSURGE on Thu Mar 19 08:26:00 2020
    As someone who started bbsing and being a sysop on a c64, that is an awesome idea (i'm working on bringing my old c64 bbs back online). You will want to draw your screens in Petscii then and not ansi and most c64 bbses only support petscii. Petmate (https://nurpax.github.io/petmate/) is a great cross platform opensource editor that you can also run under linux.

    Back when I remember visiting C64 systems (there were many part-timers in
    my area), most of them did not offer color. They were usually what I would think of as "asci art" green or amber screen.

    Which leads me to a question... if someone with a non C64 machine calls a
    C64 BBS, does their terminal program also need to support petscii, or will
    it render as it does on the server side?


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  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to Dumas Walker on Thu Mar 19 11:28:34 2020
    Which leads me to a question... if someone with a non C64 machine calls a C64 BBS, does their terminal program also need to support petscii, or
    will it render as it does on the server side?

    Yes, your client needs to support it. SyncTerm does in fact support c64/c128/amiga fonts and graphics. You also need to manually set them for
    each entry as it won't convert them on the fly.

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  • From jack phlash@77:1/911 to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 08:13:12 2020
    on 18 Mar 2020, calcmandan said...

    So I'm knee deep in concept design for my new door game. Since I"m doing it in Pascal, inspired by LORD, I'd like to know what tools you all use when designing ANSI screens.

    You can use pretty much anything for making ANSI, though I'd recommend
    editors geared towards BBS related artwork, be it old DOS stalwarts like TheDraw or ACiDDraw or newer utilities like Moebius or PabloDraw.

    Side note, I'm assuming most people use 80 columns. I'm considering a 40 column mode for C64 players (it would be tight to play a modern door
    game with one).

    I'm sure the c64 crowd would really appreciate that!

    |08j |15A C K |08p |15H L A S H |08!

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  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to jack phlash on Thu Mar 19 14:36:38 2020
    Re: My door game
    By: jack phlash to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 2020 08:13 am

    Thanks for the advice. That's why I asked, because I wanted to ensure the software I use is properly geared.

    I have moebius right now and it's nice that the default size is 80x25.

    I'm assuming C64 is 40x20, IIRC.

    My kanban is growing by leaps and bounds as I conceptualize this game.
    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Netsurge on Thu Mar 19 14:40:02 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 2020 02:36 am

    I personally use Moebius which is open source and cross platform (http://www.andyh.org/moebius/) there are others that you can run in Linux, but Moebius is regularly updated and offers some great tools to help you along with drawing stuff.

    Thanks, I have Moebius now. It's hella cherry.

    As someone who started bbsing and being a sysop on a c64, that is an awesome idea (i'm working on bringing my old c64 bbs back online). You will want to draw your screens in Petscii then and not ansi and most c64 bbses only support petscii. Petmate (https://nurpax.github.io/petmate/) is a great cros platform opensource editor that you can also run under linux.

    I wasn't considering writing the game to run on a C64 because I would consume more RAM than it would have. I was thinking of the C64 as a client system visiting a board. Or, do C64's have a limit of only being able to visit C64 boards? If that's the case I'm screwed.

    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From Dumas Walker@77:1/115 to NETSURGE on Thu Mar 19 15:48:00 2020
    Yes, your client needs to support it. SyncTerm does in fact support c64/c128/amiga fonts and graphics. You also need to manually set them for each entry as it won't convert them on the fly.

    Now that you mention it, I thought I had seen PETSCII or something listed
    in Syncterm's settings before. Thanks for the reminder. :)


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  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 23:15:00 2020
    I wasn't considering writing the game to run on a C64 because I would consume more RAM than it would have. I was thinking of the C64 as a
    client system visiting a board. Or, do C64's have a limit of only being able to visit C64 boards? If that's the case I'm screwed.

    64s can call any system, whether they can decipher what's happening is a
    whole other story. Some of the newer versions of cgterm can do some ansi but for the most part they need to call a system that supports 40 col and either ascii or petscii.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Netsurge on Fri Mar 20 21:11:10 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 2020 11:15 pm

    64s can call any system, whether they can decipher what's happening is a whole other story. Some of the newer versions of cgterm can do some ansi but for the most part they need to call a system that supports 40 col and either ascii or petscii.

    I thought so but wanted to be sure. Well, one of the things I can do is ensure that a board knows the column support is a requirements or, at the very least, I can add a configuration to 'enable' 40 column support for the board. Make it up to the sysop.

    I'm using a 64bit system to learn pascal. I'm hoping there are compile farms I can use for 16 and 32 bit systems so I can provide versions for sysops running boards on retro systems. Is that something I should concern myself with?

    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to All on Fri Mar 20 23:05:26 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 2020 11:15 pm

    Speaking of 40 column support, for those familiar with bbs themes around 40 columns, do doors in general get all 40x22 that a C64 can render? Of are there headers or footers associated with the bbs that one would ahve to design around? I'm working on ansi screens now and will be adapting them to 40 column petscii graphics. crossing fingers it works, but i want to ensure my screens will fit.
    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From jokker@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Sat Mar 21 10:44:10 2020
    I'm using a 64bit system to learn pascal. I'm hoping there are compile farms I can use for 16 and 32 bit systems so I can provide versions for sysops running boards on retro systems. Is that something I should
    concern myself with?

    If you're open sourcing it then no, one of us crazy old bastards will get it compiling for the ancient technologies. Seriously though, 32-bit isn't an issue, just a flag. Doing the 16 (or 32 via extender) thing is probably best left until afterwards. Again if you are open sourcing it then I'll probably take a whack at keeping it build for DOS. I'm kinda a bizarre masochist in
    that sense.

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    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to jokker on Sat Mar 21 12:25:28 2020
    If you're open sourcing it then no, one of us crazy old bastards will
    get it compiling for the ancient technologies. Seriously though, 32-bit isn't an issue, just a flag. Doing the 16 (or 32 via extender) thing is probably best left until afterwards. Again if you are open sourcing it then I'll probably take a whack at keeping it build for DOS. I'm kinda a bizarre masochist in that sense.

    Yes, yes you are. I want a CoCo build as well.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to jokker on Sat Mar 21 11:51:54 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: jokker to calcmandan on Sat Mar 21 2020 10:44 am

    If you're open sourcing it then no, one of us crazy old bastards will get it compiling for the ancient technologies. Seriously though, 32-bit isn't an issue, just a flag. Doing the 16 (or 32 via extender) thing is probably best left until afterwards. Again if you are open sourcing it then I'll probably take a whack at keeping it build for DOS. I'm kinda a bizarre masochist in that sense.

    My intention, from day one, is to have the game completely f2p and for hosting. I haven't decided if it'll be open sourced to the general public, at least initially. If the game is stable and being played by a growing community, I
    may have no choice but to releasse the code to the general public.

    Anyone wishing to assist in design will obviously have access to the source.
    I am thoroughly enjoying this project and want to share it with the community.

    I'm even thinking of ways to acknowledge people who help by memorializing them in the game in some respect. Coders would get a ship named after them. Important NPC's in the game would be named after people providing financial support (if such is ever offered). I don't foresee myself asking for financial aid, but who know what will happen? The scope of the game is growing daily.







    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Netsurge on Sat Mar 21 11:55:06 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to jokker on Sat Mar 21 2020 12:25 pm

    Yes, yes you are. I want a CoCo build as well.

    CoCo as in Color Computer?
    /s
    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Sat Mar 21 15:12:48 2020
    CoCo as in Color Computer?

    Yup. There are a few of us on here who are retro computer collectors.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Netsurge on Sun Mar 22 00:23:54 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to calcmandan on Thu Mar 19 2020 11:15 pm

    I wasn't considering writing the game to run on a C64 because I would consume more RAM than it would have. I was thinking of the C64 as a client system visiting a board. Or, do C64's have a limit of only being able to visit C64 boards? If that's the case I'm screwed.

    64s can call any system, whether they can decipher what's happening is a whole other story. Some of the newer versions of cgterm can do some ansi but for the most part they need to call a system that supports 40 col and either ascii or petscii.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
    |07disksh0p|08!|07bbs |08% |07bbs.diskshop.ca |08% |07mystic goodness |11SciNet |03ftn hq |08% |07https://scinet-ftn.org

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)


    Speaking of columns, I use digitaldistortion bbs as my daily board and I connect at 80 columns and 54 rows. Is this standard?
    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From jokker@77:1/100 to Netsurge on Sun Mar 22 11:20:18 2020
    Yes, yes you are. I want a CoCo build as well.

    FINE!!!! :D

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Sun Mar 22 13:04:34 2020
    Speaking of columns, I use digitaldistortion bbs as my daily board and I connect at 80 columns and 54 rows. Is this standard?

    Most systems are designed for 80x25 but as long as it works for you there is
    no issue. You will find it more difficult to work with smaller or larger columns that rows.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Netsurge on Sun Mar 22 16:02:58 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to calcmandan on Sun Mar 22 2020 01:04 pm

    Most systems are designed for 80x25 but as long as it works for you there is no issue. You will find it more difficult to work with smaller or larger columns that rows.

    I only ask so I don't screw up my ANSI screen designs.
    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Sun Mar 22 21:49:04 2020
    I only ask so I don't screw up my ANSI screen designs.

    For menus and such I would keep them at 24 or 25 rows, this way they don't scroll past people's screens who are using a terminal client at it's default settings.

    As for images, if you keep them at 80 wide you will be good. You can make
    them as long as you want. I have a few on my bbs that run at least 70 or 80 rows.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Netsurge on Sun Mar 22 22:42:56 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Netsurge to calcmandan on Sun Mar 22 2020 09:49 pm

    For menus and such I would keep them at 24 or 25 rows, this way they don't scroll past people's screens who are using a terminal client at it's default settings.

    Yeah I've been leaving a row on the top and bottom free.

    As for images, if you keep them at 80 wide you will be good. You can make them as long as you want. I have a few on my bbs that run at least 70 or 80 rows.

    Sometimes a massive image appears when loading LORD. Probably 200 rows deep. Have you seen it? Or am I one of the only people who plays LORD still?
    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From Netsurge@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Mon Mar 23 02:08:46 2020
    Sometimes a massive image appears when loading LORD. Probably 200 rows deep. Have you seen it? Or am I one of the only people who plays LORD still? Daniel Traechin

    All the time. We have a fairly large InterLord interbbs game here on SciNet.

    |15frank |08// |15netsurge
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    * Origin: % disksh0p!bbs % bbs.diskshop.ca % SciNet ftn hq % (77:1/100)
  • From jack phlash@77:1/911 to calcmandan on Mon Mar 23 06:44:16 2020
    on 22 Mar 2020, calcmandan said...

    Sometimes a massive image appears when loading LORD. Probably 200 rows deep. Have you seen it? Or am I one of the only people who plays LORD

    A lot of people used to call those "scrollers" because they're longer than the terminal window and force it to scroll upwards. It's a cool effect for
    showing large pieces of art, but something you should probably avoid the rest of the time. :)

    |08j |15A C K |08p |15H L A S H |08!

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  • From echicken@77:1/120 to calcmandan on Mon Mar 23 10:48:48 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: calcmandan to Netsurge on Sun Mar 22 2020 22:42:57

    Sometimes a massive image appears when loading LORD. Probably 200 rows deep.
    Have you seen it? Or am I one of the only people who plays LORD still?

    A scrolling graphic here and there is fine and I wouldn't worry about row-count in that context. Of course, we're not on dial-up anymore, so the graphic flies by in a hurry and mostly goes unappreciated.

    More importantly, you shouldn't push important information out of the top of the terminal before the user gets a chance to read it. Keep your menus, etc. sized so that they'll fit the lowest common denominator, or have small/large variants.

    Depending on the type of program, I either write it to scale to the size of the user's terminal, or I size it for 80x24 and then centre it in the available space.

    If having a bigger terminal window lent an advantage in a game, for example (eg. you could see more of a map than other players, or some text wasn't truncated, etc.) then I would probably clamp all users to 80x24.

    ---
    echicken
    electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
    * Origin: electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com (77:1/120)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to jack phlash on Mon Mar 23 08:40:22 2020
    Re: My door game
    By: jack phlash to calcmandan on Mon Mar 23 2020 06:44 am

    A lot of people used to call those "scrollers" because they're longer than t terminal window and force it to scroll upwards. It's a cool effect for showing large pieces of art, but something you should probably avoid the res of the time. :)

    I don't intend on using a scroller at all. My screens need to be interactive. Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to echicken on Mon Mar 23 08:48:40 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: echicken to calcmandan on Mon Mar 23 2020 10:48 am

    A scrolling graphic here and there is fine and I wouldn't worry about row-co in that context. Of course, we're not on dial-up anymore, so the graphic fli by in a hurry and mostly goes unappreciated.

    I noticed that in LORD. I don't really see it before it's gone.

    More importantly, you shouldn't push important information out of the top of the terminal before the user gets a chance to read it. Keep your menus, etc. sized so that they'll fit the lowest common denominator, or have small/large variants.

    Great advice. I will keep that in mind while I design my screens.

    Depending on the type of program, I either write it to scale to the size of user's terminal, or I size it for 80x24 and then centre it in the available space.

    I was aligning everything to the left. But now that you mention it, it would be wise to center it.

    If having a bigger terminal window lent an advantage in a game, for example (eg. you could see more of a map than other players, or some text wasn't truncated, etc.) then I would probably clamp all users to 80x24.

    I'm designing it for 80x24 and looking at a 40 column variant for C64 users.

    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to echicken on Mon Mar 23 08:49:06 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: echicken to calcmandan on Mon Mar 23 2020 10:48 am

    Oh, and thanks for your input. Very valuable to me.

    Daniel Traechin
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (77:1/110)
  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to All on Sun Apr 12 00:51:28 2020
    Hi folks.

    As I've mentioned in the past, I'm creating a fresh door game. I've spent the better part of a month studying Pascal. Having a good time with it. In the meantime, I've manageed to befriend another pascal programmer on freenode and now collaborates with me on designing and coding the game.

    Tonight, while enjoying a cigar, I started initial screenplay creation for the game. I'm pasting it below for your enjoyment. To set the scene, you start the game as a new cadet at starfleet academy. The map loads with a welcoming committee. The world MAY be a pseudo 3d world, but we'll see how design goes.

    At the moment, we're spinning up a VM with a linux based BBS and going to load a basic door game to get the feel for it.

    Here's an early script from the screenplay. Enjoy:

    User spawns in 24x24 new user space
    Spawn Welcome Committee


    Greetings Cadet <name>

    Congratulations on your appointment to Starfleet Academy, the premier institute of higher education for the United Federation of Planets and affiliated organizations. I am the Academy welcoming committee.

    Over the next four years, you will be educated, trained, and rigorously tested in preparation for the most challenging and rewarding career paths to ever exist. Regardless of your course of study, success in our program will lead to a long , illustrious career in the Federation, Starfleet, and Federation Research to name a few.

    To get started, choose from the following departments. For information on any of the program offerings here at the Academy, let me know.

    Science Conservatory
    Tactical Academy
    Engineering Guild
    Medical Corps
    Navigator School
    Communications Union


    Enter your choice <S,T,E,M,N,C,?>

    You have chosen <>, is this correct? <Y/n>

    Inventory: Cadet items issued


    Press CTRL-I anytime to view the items in your inventory.

    You are now a Plebe Inductee of the academy. Feel free to navigate this courtyard with your arrow keys and invoke the 'look' command for a description of the immediate area. For a more detailed view, use your newly issued Cadet Tricorder. Spend as much time here as you wish here to get oriented. When ready, the entry hatch into the academy foyer is directly to your west. It signifies your transformation into a United Federation of Planets member. You will, therefore, pass through that hatch once and never again. Good luck and godspeed.







    Daniel Traechin
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  • From Digital Man@77:1/100 to calcmandan on Mon Apr 13 15:21:00 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: calcmandan to Netsurge on Sun Mar 22 2020 12:23 am

    Speaking of columns, I use digitaldistortion bbs as my daily board and I connect at 80 columns and 54 rows. Is this standard?

    The 80 columns is "standard", the 54 rows is not. What terminal program are you using?

    digital man

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  • From calcmandan@77:1/110 to Digital Man on Mon Apr 13 15:53:42 2020
    Re: Re: My door game
    By: Digital Man to calcmandan on Mon Apr 13 2020 03:21 pm

    The 80 columns is "standard", the 54 rows is not. What terminal program are

    I'm using a standard 80x25. I think my collaborator must've cropped the images for the side-by-side.

    So far he's fixed some of the output. I think he was just using an incorrect character set. I"m using IBM VGA 8x16.

    Here is an improved appearance

    https://imgur.com/a/t6ter7l

    Daniel Traechin
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