Hey Avon,

Been following your battle with installing debian linux on that box.

If your going to be using it as a server, then to elimate all the issues
your having. Don't install the GUI, go straight console text mode.

Mystic dosn't need a gui. The new server doesn't either.

You will still be able to do things with the box.

Out of intrest, what is the model and make of the motherboard and video
card?





\/orlon
VK3HEG


--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv6l)
* Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

On 29 Sep 2020 at 11:32a, vorlon pondered and said...

your having. Don't install the GUI, go straight console text mode.

But I'd prefer to use a GUI as well as a terminal prompt... :)

Mystic dosn't need a gui. The new server doesn't either.

It won't be just Mystic I'm running on it etc..

You will still be able to do things with the box.

Out of intrest, what is the model and make of the motherboard and video card?

Not sure but will try and find out, for now I can see a GUI and it boots so I am down the path a bit. :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

OK some guidance please.

I'll need to look back at my News server install which was ages ago but I am wondering what to do for the HDD partitioning and what size to set things
like home and var and temp and ?? and if to use LVM? or other stuff the installer offers.

There is a new 1TB HDD in the machine and I have a bootable Debian 10 USB I
am using.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 20 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

I'll need to look back at my News server install which was ages ago but
I am wondering what to do for the HDD partitioning and what size to set things like home and var and temp and ?? and if to use LVM? or other stuff the installer offers.

What I did here on the CRBBS system, which is running Debian 10, is set up
the 1tb drive into two partitions. One is 100gb, and that houses root, os
boot, var, etc. The other partition is the balance of the disk (minus 2 gb
for swap), and that is my /home directory.

Even with everything installed on that system, the root partition is only
using about 15gb. With everything installed for CRBBS, including 40gb is downloadable files, it's only using 225gb.

There is a new 1TB HDD in the machine and I have a bootable Debian 10
USB I am using.

That should be plenty of room. Did you get the IOS that included the Non-Free drivers? I had to when I installed, as the Free drivers didn't support my
NIC, and I didn't have connection to the internet. With the Non-Free, I had
no problems at all.


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/25 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

Re: Installing Debian
By: Avon to All on Sun Sep 20 2020 04:18 pm

Howdy,

I'll need to look back at my News server install which was ages ago but I am wondering what to do for the HDD partitioning and what size to set things like home and var and temp and ?? and if to use LVM? or other stuff the installer offers.

So you'll probably get mixed reviews on this, but IMHO, the value of LVM is reduced these days (but I still use it).

Back in the day when large drives where expensive and it wasnt uncommon to have








more than 1 hard drive in a machine, LVM was great to spread data over drives and enable you to "resize" partitions if your initial configuration didnt meet the current size requirements.

(IIRC, there also limits on the number of partitions and the partition sizes due to BIOS limitations.)

These days, its probably OK to have "one big root" partition and a swap partition...

That said, I still create systems (even VMs) with about 2G each for /, /tmp, /var /usr and swap, and I leave the rest unallocated, for "future use". (My docker partition is 20G and I tend to need to resize it as the number of containers increases.)

...ëîåï

... God is alive- he just doesn't want to get involved.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 20 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

I'll need to look back at my News server install which was ages ago but
I am wondering what to do for the HDD partitioning and what size to set things like home and var and temp and ?? and if to use LVM? or other stuff the installer offers.

LVM is mainly for flexibility when running a RAID setup and is of limited utility on a single drive.

Giving paths their own partitions is about managing your storage space and preventing a full drive from affecting other parts of the system. For instance if there's a hard limit on /home because it's its own partition, users of the system can't fill up the entire drive and interfere with installing updates
or pulling news from your newsfeed. You can also control this with quotas so hard partitioning is not the only solution.

Partition sizes depend on how much data you expect to store in each category. /var is for variable system data so your nntp news, www data, email spools etc would go here on most distros. /home is for user data so depending on what
kind of access you give people their personal files would be stored here along with their email once it's pulled from the system email spool on /var. The storage needs of /tmp depends on the software you're running and how much data it needs to store there during operation (typically not very much at all).

For more flexibility I'd just partition the whole drive as / and lock down
user directories with quotas, assuming you even have people using the system
in a manner where that could be an issue.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Subcarrier BBS (21:2/140)

On 20 Sep 2020 at 04:18p, Avon pondered and said...

OK some guidance please.

Thanks all for the info and advice.

This box may also pick up Usenet duties. I took a look at the current Debian system I set up and it had the following stats

dev dir type total avail used

/sda1 / ext4 19.5GB 6.8GB 11.7GB
/sda8 /home ext4 165.4GB 138.5GB 18.5GB
/sda6 /tmp ext4 1.9GB 1.8GB 3.0MB
/sda7 /var ext4 787.3GB 179.5GB 567.8GB

Most of the Usenet data sits in var but looking at the server stats only
about 64GB is actually used from the 500GB i provisioned so the /var stats
are a bit off as they show reserved space that has yet been unused on the current box.

In sum for this box if I am to provision for /var I think I will need to look at something like 100-200GB to be on the safe side to allow for Usenet.

Isn't swap meant to be something like half your onboard ram? So if I have 8
gig I make a 4 gig swap partition? Or is that too much, or does it depend on what stuff I am running say a NNTP server on top of BBS stuff?

For root perhaps 50GB or 100GB?

I'm not sure where to place software like Mystic or HPT etc. Do I put them in as dirs hanging off / in which case I may need to allocate more to / than otherwise I would?

I don't think there's merit in using LVM based on what I have read / will use the box for.

Debian offers these as options if I don't do the partitions manually.

Partitioning scheme Minimum space Created partitions

All files in one partition 600MB /, swap

Separate /home partition 500MB /, /home, swap

Separate /home, /var and /tmp partitions 1GB /, /home, /var, /tmp, swap

Their advise is if you are unsure, choose the first one.

Further advice from Debian reads as follows:

[snip]

For multi-user systems or systems with lots of disk space, it's best to put /var, /tmp, and /home each on their own partitions separate from the / partition.

You might need a separate /usr/local partition if you plan to install many programs that are not part of the Debian distribution. If your machine will
be a mail server, you might need to make /var/mail a separate partition.
Often, putting /tmp on its own partition, for instance 20-50MB, is a good
idea. If you are setting up a server with lots of user accounts, it's
generally good to have a separate, large /home partition. In general, the partitioning situation varies from computer to computer depending on its
uses.

With respect to the issue of swap partition size, there are many views. One rule of thumb which works well is to use as much swap as you have system memory. It also shouldn't be smaller than 16MB, in most cases. Of course,
there are exceptions to these rules. If you are trying to solve 10000 simultaneous equations on a machine with 256MB of memory, you may need a gigabyte (or more) of swap.

On some 32-bit architectures (m68k and PowerPC), the maximum size of a swap partition is 2GB. That should be enough for nearly any installation.

[snip]


So perhaps no more than 2GB for swap, probably why I had 1.9GB on the old box :)


Tomorrow I am juggling Monday work, a sons birthday dinner at home in the evening, followed by pulling our bedroom apart as my wife wants to start painting windows then walls this week. We'll sleep in another room for the
rest of the week.

I fear my time to work on this box may be limited in the next few days.

Phew I'm stuffed :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello Avon!

On 20 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

I am wondering what to do for the HDD partitioning and what size to set things like home and var and temp and ?? and if to use LVM? or other

I would say enable LVM in any case -- that way you can add more disks later on and assign the space (either a whole device = disk, or parts of it = partitions) to one or more volume groups, which then house the logical
volumes (which in turn contain the file systems).

LVM makes it easy to assign more space to a certain logical volume (file system) if you don't know beforehand how much space it should have/needs.

But... For a rather large drive and the assumption that you don't have local users filling up their home directories to a degree that the entire disk gets filled up, I would say go for one logical volume with one file system (/) on it. That way you won't have to resize logical volumes all the time during setup.

But it depends on how much control you want of the file systems, e.g.
the /var file system for logs. (But most software isn't happy = ceases to function if they can't write their logs, so it would be more of an indicator that something logs way too much or has gone bonkers if the log file system fills up...)

Best regards
Zip

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/12 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Star Collision BBS, Uppsala, Sweden (21:1/202)

On 20 Sep 2020 at 09:11p, Avon pondered and said...

So perhaps no more than 2GB for swap, probably why I had 1.9GB on the
old box :)

Yeah at this point I'm thinking

2GB for swap

300GB for var which allows for 200GB for Usenet and 100GB for other files.

Not sure if I just split the rest between root and home?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Yeah at this point I'm thinking

2GB for swap

300GB for var which allows for 200GB for Usenet and 100GB for other files.

I'm a little late to the party, but why are you chopping up the hard drive in the first place? Why not just use one big volume for root?

I'm not sure what advantages splitting up your filesystem gives these days? other than using different flags for enhanced security..

As for LVM, I'd do what zip suggested, it doesn't have much impact, and gives you the option later on of adding a hard drive to the filesystem.

(On my own systems I usually enable LVM if it's expandable and not worry if it's not - like a laptop or something).

I suppose if you're worried about running out of space due to some misbehaving application eating it all up, you might split it up..

Andrew


--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

Hello Avon!

On 20 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

Isn't swap meant to be something like half your onboard ram? So if I
have 8 gig I make a 4 gig swap partition? Or is that too much, or does
it depend on what stuff I am running say a NNTP server on top of BBS stuff?

I just read up on this on https://wiki.debian.org/Swap and it appears they "recommend" 1.5 times the amount of RAM.

It depends on the workload and its memory usage patterns, but it can be good
to have some clearance.

The installer usually suggests something.


Speaking of this, there are heuristics in the memory management which by default appears to result in a rather "random" random way of deciding if processes will get the memory that they ask for when memory pressure gets
high (for some definition of high).

One can tune this to let it always grant all memory requests from
applications (always overcommit) and kill them off should the need *really* arise, or never allow more memory than what is available be handed out (never overcommit). This leads to a more deterministic memory allocation scenario for applications.

See https://engineering.pivotal.io/post/virtual_memory_settings_in_linux_-_the_prob lem_with_overcommit/ for more information on this.

Also see https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294651 as to why one might NOT want to set vm.overcommit_ratio = 100.

On my box (which by the way has a swap file that equals the amount of RAM), I have added an /etc/sysctl.d/local.conf file with the following:

# how aggressively the kernel will swap memory pages
# (lower values decrease aggressiveness)
# (a value of 0 instructs the kernel not to initiate swap until the amount of
# free and file-backed pages is less than the high water mark in a zone) vm.swappiness = 0

# virtual memory accounting mode
# (always check, never overcommit)
vm.overcommit_memory = 2

# a percentage by which memory can be overcommitted
# (for vm.overcommit_memory = 2: maximum % of physical RAM to be allocated to
# applications)
vm.overcommit_ratio = 75

So it will refrain from using swap as much as possible, never grant memory allocation requests that it cannot fulfil (using RAM + swap), and use 75%
of the RAM for applications, 25% for kernel stuff.

Best regards
Zip

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/12 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Star Collision BBS, Uppsala, Sweden (21:1/202)

On 20 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

So perhaps no more than 2GB for swap, probably why I had 1.9GB on the
old box :)

Judging by the memory and storage values used as examples in the documentation you quoted I suspect it's a little out of date with respect to hardware.

There have been lots of different formulas to determine recommended swap size over the years but they're all products of their era based on what hardware and software packages were in common use at the time. The gist of it is that you want memory + swap to be enough to cover the maximum memory use your install- ation could be expected to reach.

With 8GB of memory I suspect the software you've said you'll be running will never touch swap ever and it won't matter how much you allocate. For example right now on my system mis is using all of 8 megabytes and an instance of mystic runs around 7MB.

Add to that when you're swapping to spinning rust memory sizes have greatly outstripped the transfer speed of hard drives over the years so any swapping
at all will have a very noticeable impact on performance.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Subcarrier BBS (21:2/140)

143

Black Panther wrote to Avon <=-

What I did here on the CRBBS system, which is running Debian 10, is set
up the 1tb drive into two partitions. One is 100gb, and that houses
root, os boot, var, etc. The other partition is the balance of the disk (minus 2 gb for swap), and that is my /home directory.

This is similar to how I set most of my machines up also... one partition
for /home and one for / (the rest) with some set aside for a swap partition.

I have never set one up for a news server, so that might make me rethink my strategy.


... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

143

alterego wrote to Avon <=-

Back in the day when large drives where expensive and it wasnt uncommon
to have more than 1 hard drive in a machine, LVM was great to spread
data over drives and enable you to "resize" partitions if your initial configuration didnt meet the current size requirements.

I use it all the time with my ESX cluster at work - we have a bunch
of Linux dev boxes, and being able to expand a drive on the fly
without having to mess with hardware is nice.



np: XTC, "Leisure"

... Retrace your steps
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

143

dev dir type total avail used

/sda1 / ext4 19.5GB 6.8GB 11.7GB
/sda8 /home ext4 165.4GB 138.5GB 18.5GB
/sda6 /tmp ext4 1.9GB 1.8GB 3.0MB
/sda7 /var ext4 787.3GB 179.5GB 567.8GB

I used to do this in my early days of using linux when I had two or three small







hard drives in the box. There were reasons back then for this approach and I forget now what those reasons were.

Nowadays I find myself filling up /var or /home so I need to do something about







that. Currently this box has..

/sda1 /boot/efi vfat 100MB Just for the kernel to boot from UEFI /sda2 swap swap 4GB Swap partition
/sda3 / ext4 927GB The main partition for whatever

If your not booting UEFI you don't need the first one.

Running like that I never need to resize or change partitions around.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

On 20 Sep 2020 at 07:41p, apam pondered and said...

I'm a little late to the party, but why are you chopping up the hard
drive in the first place? Why not just use one big volume for root?

I'm not sure to chop it up or not but the installer gave me several options which led me down this thread/path :)

It seems like the ease of just having one big partition for root and
something small for swap like 2-4 gigs may be the way to go.

As for LVM, I'd do what zip suggested, it doesn't have much impact, and gives you the option later on of adding a hard drive to the filesystem.

Thanks, yes I'll take this advice on board and do this when I next have a chance at doing something on the computer at home. Not sure if tonight will
be a starter :(

I suppose if you're worried about running out of space due to some misbehaving application eating it all up, you might split it up..

I may have Usenet on the box in the medium term as I try to cut down running computers and this does chew up space but does it need separate partitions on the same HDD? I'm starting to think probably not.

If I LVM I guess I can always add another HDD if need be anyway to offset any issues with storage running out.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 21 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

If I LVM I guess I can always add another HDD if need be anyway to
offset any issues with storage running out.

Yeah if you think you might need to extend a partition down the road it's pretty easy with LVM to turn the existing volume into a JBOD spanning the new disk.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Subcarrier BBS (21:2/140)

I'll need to look back at my News server install which was ages ago
but I am wondering what to do for the HDD partitioning and what
size to set things like home and var and temp and ?? and if to use
LVM? or other stuff the installer offers.
There is a new 1TB HDD in the machine and I have a bootable Debian
10 USB I am using.

well, i can tell how i did it on my linux mint desktop machine. First i
had all on one partition and a swapfile. After that i changed it to
everything but home to a 120gb ssd and home to 1tb hdd. and swapfile
again. fast and easy to reinstall linux to, without touching home.

Mindsurfer

--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: FuNToPia telnet://funtopia.ddnss.eu:2023 (21:3/119)

I tried using this installer https://bit.ly/333LzCN

I did so after the one I used on the Debian site failed to run and hung as it started up.

There were errors (still are) with the video card, so I found this version
and followed some steps posted to me in FSX_GEN back in 2019 and managed to
get things running so I could login.

Then I could not get sudo to run for my normal login so googled and added my name in to some sudo file then could not get nautalus to run with elevated
root like privs when I tried to sudo nautalus

Kinda over it now, so calling it quits for the night and will probably
reformat the drive again and do another install.

Even though the installer was meant to be 'lite' it still installed the libre-office stuff which I also googled and found some info on how to remove for debian 9 that seemed to work for 10, although there were some icons that didn't go afterwards from the desktop etc.

Honestly it's not been exactly smooth so far but I will try again.

I did opt for just one swap and the rest as / using LVM and that bit worked
OK but as for the thing just working after the first restart at the end of
the install... nope I can't seem to get that working. Meh.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 27 Sep 2020 at 07:22p, Avon pondered and said...

Then I could not get sudo to run for my normal login so googled and
added my name in to some sudo file then could not get nautalus to run
with elevated root like privs when I tried to sudo nautalus

Kinda over it now, so calling it quits for the night and will probably reformat the drive again and do another install.

Even though the installer was meant to be 'lite' it still installed the libre-office stuff which I also googled and found some info on how to remove for debian 9 that seemed to work for 10, although there were some icons that didn't go afterwards from the desktop etc.

Honestly it's not been exactly smooth so far but I will try again.

I downloaded the 3.4Gig DVD iso and ran the install process on that. Had the same issue with the graphics not working but ran the same fix I had from last time. The system still boots with some errors but it boots to the desktop (as before). Also had the same issue with not being able to run sudo occurred so again fixed that with a fix I found on google.

I can't seem to get my user account to run nautilus when I try to call it
with sudo - it just fails to fire up. Google has yet to reveal a good fix for this. I do want to be able to have root privs to do file stuff from time to time but ideally without to login as root to do it.

Tonight (it's coming up noon here Monday) I will try to install a fresh copy
of Mystic and start to figure out the best way to migrate Agency across to it. I'm thinking it may be a bit of a PITA to do but changing some of dirs in the BBS at the same time. Will ponder some more.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 28 Sep 2020, Avon said the following...

I downloaded the 3.4Gig DVD iso and ran the install process on that. Had the same issue with the graphics not working but ran the same fix I had from last time. The system still boots with some errors but it boots to the desktop (as before). Also had the same issue with not being able to run sudo occurred so again fixed that with a fix I found on google.

Make sure you have the ISO that contains the Non-Free drivers. These can be found at: https://tinyurl.com/yxq8669h. Without the Non-Free or proprietary drivers, you can have all types of issues.

Also, when going through the setup, you'll get to a point where you enter
your username and password. There is a place for you to enter a root
password. If you don't set that password up, the install will not
automatically set up sudo.

I can't seem to get my user account to run nautilus when I try to call it with sudo - it just fails to fire up. Google has yet to reveal a good
fix for this. I do want to be able to have root privs to do file stuff from time to time but ideally without to login as root to do it.

Hmmm, I don't use nautilus here, so I'm not sure how that works. I have only had to do that one, where I called caja with sudo. (I run MATE here)
Otherwise, I do most everything from the command line.

Tonight (it's coming up noon here Monday) I will try to install a fresh copy of Mystic and start to figure out the best way to migrate Agency across to it. I'm thinking it may be a bit of a PITA to do but changing some of dirs in the BBS at the same time. Will ponder some more.

One other thing to think of, is under Linux, Mystic will not be able to bind ports lower than 1024 (I think). You can run MIS using sudo, but I've run
into some issues where files were actually created as root:root. What I did,
is forward port 23 in my modem, to port 2300 to my system. Then Mystic is set up to use port 2300, and no need for sudo. There are other ways around it,
but that works quick and easy for me. :)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/25 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

On 27 Sep 2020 at 05:19p, Black Panther pondered and said...

Make sure you have the ISO that contains the Non-Free drivers. These can be found at: https://tinyurl.com/yxq8669h. Without the Non-Free or proprietary drivers, you can have all types of issues.

Yep I downloaded a non-free driver version... not sure if it was that one.
Nope it was tinyurl.com/yddd7k9o which I thought would be the one to use? Should I have used the 'live' ones?

Also, when going through the setup, you'll get to a point where you enter your username and password. There is a place for you to enter a root password. If you don't set that password up, the install will not automatically set up sudo.

Yep did that but still hit sudo issues with my regular user account not working. It was (before I fixed it with a google fix) throwing up an error saying my user account was not a member of sudo users and that I;d been reported on.

Hmmm, I don't use nautilus here, so I'm not sure how that works. I have only had to do that one, where I called caja with sudo. (I run MATE here) Otherwise, I do most everything from the command line.

all good, I have used nautilus on Ubuntu in the past without issue using sudo but for now, no joy in this install.

One other thing to think of, is under Linux, Mystic will not be able to bind ports lower than 1024 (I think). You can run MIS using sudo, but
I've run into some issues where files were actually created as
root:root. What I did, is forward port 23 in my modem, to port 2300 to
my system. Then Mystic is set up to use port 2300, and no need for sudo. There are other ways around it, but that works quick and easy for me. :)

Humm.. thanks for this, yes I recall reading about the need to run mis with sudo which (from memory) only grabs what privs it needs to while starting up then drops back to regular privs...

I think the pathing and other changes along those lines I need to make to a bunch of ini files and file base/ message base dirs will keep me busy to
start with.

I also want to set my BBS theme to not be the 'default' theme contents -
which it is at the moment.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

136

I can't seem to get my user account to run nautilus when I try to call
it with sudo - it just fails to fire up. Google has yet to reveal a
good fix for this. I do want to be able to have root privs to do file stuff from time to time but ideally without to login as root to do it.

FWIW, I used to use nautilus but it became a memory hog on my old pc. I switched to using mc (midnight commander) from a terminal, and pcmanfm as a graphical replacement. I have tried pcmanfm some as sudo but cannot
remember how well it works (it has been a while). mc will do so.

mc is good for copying/moving/deleting files, and viewing/editing text
files. If you are trying to view/edit pictures or non-text documents, you
are better off with pcmanfm.

Now I don't even install nautilus.

Unless, of course, you mean a different nautilus besides the file manager?


... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
--- MultiMail
* Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:7636/SSH:2122 (21:4/134)

On 28 Sep 2020 at 03:51p, Blue White pondered and said...

Unless, of course, you mean a different nautilus besides the file
manager?

Thanks for the tips and the names to look at :)

Yep I'm talking about the file manager :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 28 Sep 2020 at 11:49a, Avon pondered and said...

Tonight (it's coming up noon here Monday) I will try to install a fresh copy of Mystic and start to figure out the best way to migrate Agency across to it. I'm thinking it may be a bit of a PITA to do but changing some of dirs in the BBS at the same time. Will ponder some more.

Well I re-installed Debian and spent some time in the last day or so poking about the box and the Desktop options as well.

Today I copied over the windows BBS files and dropped them into a mirror on
the Linux box. Then spent some time changing paths in config areas. Have not got to them all but making progress. Opted to merge down file dirs that I had different message nets in down to one main dir for message files..

Trying to compile nodelists does not seem to work correctly. I think I have duff archive switches and perhaps the wrong zip or unzip installed. It seems
to be a mix of Debian and InfoZip stuff... Mmmm

I expect a number of scripts will need to be looked at and I also need to
test out other areas of the BBS too...

Not sure how I will tackle local doors yet but got to get files and messages working first and ensure menus look OK etc.

Then will come the tricky part of switching it over to live while some other stuff still runs on the windows system for now...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 03 Oct 2020, 09:29p, Avon said the following...

Today I copied over the windows BBS files and dropped them into a mirror on the Linux box. Then spent some time changing paths in config areas. Have not got to them all but making progress. Opted to merge down file dirs that I had different message nets in down to one main dir for
message files..

That is a good time to get things straighted out. I have files separated by network, along with message bases. It makes it a bit easier.

Trying to compile nodelists does not seem to work correctly. I think I have duff archive switches and perhaps the wrong zip or unzip installed. It seems to be a mix of Debian and InfoZip stuff... Mmmm

Try the ones I posted in FSX_GEN. That's what I'm running here with no problems.

I expect a number of scripts will need to be looked at and I also need to test out other areas of the BBS too...

You'll be doing that for a while. ;) Kinda like when I made the switch, and forgot one path in one of the mutil.ini files... Drove me nuts for about a week.

Not sure how I will tackle local doors yet but got to get files and messages working first and ensure menus look OK etc.

Doors are actually pretty simple with Dosemu. When you get to that point, let me know. :)

Then will come the tricky part of switching it over to live while some other stuff still runs on the windows system for now...

Sounds like what I'm working on. Deon talked me into giving Docker a try, and I'm working on getting all of the hub 4 config set up. I had forgotten how
much of a pain it is to set up Husky config files... :)

Once all the paths are set up, I'll work on getting the nodes in place in
both Husky and Binkd. Then, I'll look at getting the nodes connected to the right echos.

I also haven't quite figured out what's going to happen with the FTN<>QWK gateway. I may transfer that to the Debian system while everything get's configured... Not sure yet, but it will keep running. :)

If that wasn't enough, I've been working on some MPL programs. I'm a gluten
for punishment, I guess... ;)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

Re: Re: Installing Debian
By: Black Panther to Avon on Sat Oct 03 2020 02:39 am

Howdy,

Sounds like what I'm working on. Deon talked me into giving Docker a try, and I'm working on getting all of the hub 4 config set up.
I had forgotten how
much of a pain it is to set up Husky config files... :)

Actually, I have the husky config setup and I think its way easier than the other BBS software that I've used (as a hub).

A node now is somwhere between 3 and 6 lines:
Link:
Aka:
Password:
Flavour

And if nodes have a different password for TIC/Areafix/Packet - then the password line is broken out to those 3 line config items.

Each net has its own directory, and each directory is a file for areas/nodes and routes.

Areas pretty much doesnt change when setup. Nodes and Routes do when a new node comes along...

I've done a similar thing with binkd, with a config file for each net with the node details.

...ëîåï

... History tends to exaggerate.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Hello Black!

** On Saturday 03.10.20 - 02:39, Black Panther wrote to Avon:

If that wasn't enough, I've been working on some MPL
programs. I'm a gluten for punishment, I guess... ;)

Gluten-free is better for your health.

Be a glutton for no gluten! <g>




--- OpenXP 5.0.46
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

On 03 Oct 2020, 09:38p, alterego said the following...

Actually, I have the husky config setup and I think its way easier than the other BBS software that I've used (as a hub).

It's really not that bad. What I'm doing is taking the config file that I had for Windows, and changing all of the paths to where they are now. I'll then send the area/filefix messages to connect them to the proper echos.

It's just taking a little while, as I'm also working on other projects.


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

On 03 Oct 2020, 08:22a, Ogg said the following...

If that wasn't enough, I've been working on some MPL
programs. I'm a gluten for punishment, I guess... ;)

Gluten-free is better for your health.

Be a glutton for no gluten! <g>

I was wondering if I had the right word there. It was late and I couldn't see straight anymore... ;) (That's my story and I'm sticking to it)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

On 03 Oct 2020 at 02:39a, Black Panther pondered and said...

That is a good time to get things straighted out. I have files separated by network, along with message bases. It makes it a bit easier.

It's a balancing act as the more I change the more other files that ref the
BBS need to change too.

But I think having all the message base JAM files in one dir and not
separated by dirs based on networks is fine to do... certainly simplifies issues around having to change each base path manually when I can apply a global change to path and then move the JAM files over.

File bases I have left as is (quite split out) and had to manually alter
around 40 bases path statements by hand. Sigh.

Just complied cryptlib for Mystic. Now working on zip/unzip issues.

I think a number of ansi menus may be borked by case sensitivity issues also.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 03 Oct 2020 at 09:38p, alterego pondered and said...

much of a pain it is to set up Husky config files... :)

I agree

Actually, I have the husky config setup and I think its way easier than the other BBS software that I've used (as a hub).

once set yep but manually adding nodes is a pain (says the guy not using it yet)

A node now is somwhere between 3 and 6 lines:
Link:
Aka:
Password:
Flavour

one thing I think that I will like (and Dan was doing) is setting all
echomail and files per node to be tossed to a filebox. I think having a clear idea of files held per node is a good move. Having stuff sat in echomail\out and not being easily clear on what is what is a pain.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 03 Oct 2020 at 08:22a, Ogg pondered and said...

Gluten-free is better for your health.

Be a glutton for no gluten! <g>

I'm thinking Flying High again :)

Rodger Rodger.... OK Victor what;s your Vector?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I'm wanting to be able to use VNC from my windows machine so I can remote in
to the Debian box and do admin stuff from within my home LAN. I' not thinking this is something I want to be able to do from outside the home.

There seem to be several web walk through articles for this some more
detailed than others. I found this one https://tinyurl.com/yxt6ylmp and this other one https://tinyurl.com/yxfuwd2k which both want me to use ssh and install xfce.

Do you think is a good idea / best instructs to follow?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Installing Debian
By: Avon to alterego on Sun Oct 04 2020 09:40 am

Howdy,

one thing I think that I will like (and Dan was doing) is setting all echomail and files per node to be tossed to a filebox. I think having a clear idea of files held per node is a good move. Having
stuff sat in echomail\out and not being easily clear on what is what is a pain.

So when you are setup, I'll give you two scripts.

"show-queue" shows whats in the queue by node, which is what is posted to the bot echo daily.
"outlist z:f/n" shows whats in the queue for a specific node.

Outboxes (and inboxes I guess), are great for moving files around (like game packets) - but for normal "FTN" stuff, I prefer to use the normal BSO structure that many supporting components use.

...ëîåï

... Young gorillas are friendly but they soon learn.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 04 Oct 2020 at 10:44a, alterego pondered and said...

So when you are setup, I'll give you two scripts.

thanks :)

Outboxes (and inboxes I guess), are great for moving files around (like game packets) - but for normal "FTN" stuff, I prefer to use the normal
BSO structure that many supporting components use.

I'm thinking of how best to quickly purge stuff held by a HUB for a node that is MIA and being delisted. A filebox for both echomail and file areas seems like a good idea to me.

James had done some really helpful work in Mystic that allowed for echomail
to be purged from echomail\out BSO folders when a MUTIL function was run. Ideally I'd like the same for HPT but the tossing echomail and files to a filebox seems to me to be a quick win to at least spot probs and then nuke things in a surgical way.

When you need to remove held packets etc. for a node how do you do it?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Installing Debian
By: Avon to alterego on Sun Oct 04 2020 11:47 am

Howdy,

There seem to be several web walk through articles for this some more detailed than others. I found this one https://tinyurl.com/yxt6ylmp and this other one https://tinyurl.com/yxfuwd2k which both want
me to use ssh and install xfce.

Do you think is a good idea / best instructs to follow?

I'll defer to others for comment.

I'm not a GUI guy - especially for console apps like a BBS :-P

Xwindows (aka the unix gui) is so bloated because its not just 1 thing to install. You need the subsytem itself, and then your preferred window manager, then the apps themselves. (And then if you want to access it remotely enter something like VNC.)

That said, for my DOS BBS (which runs in docker) - I do have VNC in there too and the xwindow environment lets me target a specific node. Its a minimal xwindows environment how it was back in the 90s :). When I have time and energy, I'm going to change that though, so its 4 docker containers - all console if possible...

...ëîåï

... You don't have to think too hard when you talk to teachers.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

Re: Re: Installing Debian
By: Avon to alterego on Sun Oct 04 2020 12:51 pm

Howdy,

I'm thinking of how best to quickly purge stuff held by a HUB for a node that is MIA and being delisted. A filebox for both echomail
and file areas seems like a good idea to me.

When you need to remove held packets etc. for a node how do you do it?

Yup, super easy:

"show-queue" shows whats in the queue by node, which is what is posted to the bot echo daily.
"outlist z:f/n" shows whats in the queue for a specific node.

I use the later file to figure out what to delete from the queue.

I did have a script somewhere, that was "removenode z:f/n" which would do it for me - but I've misplaced it. (And delisting nodes is not a task that happens often at the moment yet ;)

I also use "AutoPassive" with HPT, its sets to 28 days, which if this is mail in the queue for anode that is 28 days old, HPT automatically "pauses" the node (so no more exporting) - thus the filesystem doesnt keep growing if you are not on top of it.

...ëîåï

... Chuck Norris can sleep while he's awake.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)

On 04 Oct 2020, 09:36a, Avon said the following...

It's a balancing act as the more I change the more other files that ref the BBS need to change too.

That's part of the fun! :)

But I think having all the message base JAM files in one dir and not separated by dirs based on networks is fine to do... certainly simplifies issues around having to change each base path manually when I can apply a global change to path and then move the JAM files over.

It depends on the number of message bases you have. For me, it was easier to separate them due to the number. It also took forever to try to open that directory in the file manager, as it had so many files in it.

For the file areas here, I have them broken down by network. The local bases are even broken down into:
bbs
/doors
/adult
/oneliners
/announce
/lord
/mystic
/ftn
/programs
/proboard
...etc

But I have a LOT of files online...

I think a number of ansi menus may be borked by case sensitivity issues also.

What I did, is just make them all lower case, as well as any future files. It just makes life easier. :)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

On 04 Oct 2020, 11:17a, alterego said the following...

I also use "AutoPassive" with HPT, its sets to 28 days, which if this is mail in the queue for anode that is 28 days old, HPT automatically "pauses" the node (so no more exporting) - thus the filesystem doesnt
keep growing if you are not on top of it.

I haven't looked into that one much yet. I may have to take a look at it.
I've noticed it listed on the wiki, I've just always been looking for
something else at the time... :)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

On 10-04-20 11:47, Avon wrote to alterego <=-

I'm wanting to be able to use VNC from my windows machine so I can
remote in to the Debian box and do admin stuff from within my home LAN.
I' not thinking this is something I want to be able to do from outside
the home.

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)


... This MSG written by pouring warm tea on an Ouija board.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

I'm wanting to be able to use VNC from my windows machine so I can
remote in to the Debian box and do admin stuff from within my home
LAN. I' not thinking this is something I want to be able to do from outside the home.
Do you think is a good idea / best instructs to follow?

i dont have any graphical interface on my BBS raspberry. But if i would
like to have a remote desktop, why not use Anydesk? https://anydesk.com/
It is free for privat use.

Mindsurfer

--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: FuNToPia telnet://funtopia.ddnss.eu:2023 (21:3/119)

On 04 Oct 2020 at 09:17p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Not for me :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 04 Oct 2020 at 11:00a, Mindsurfer pondered and said...

i dont have any graphical interface on my BBS raspberry. But if i would like to have a remote desktop, why not use Anydesk? https://anydesk.com/ It is free for privat use.

I have not look at this, thanks for the lead. I suspect it will be like teamview so traffic is routed via external servers. If so I think just connecting to a VNC style server to see my desktop would be preferable.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello Avon!

** On Monday 05.10.20 - 09:05, Avon wrote to Mindsurfer:

use Anydesk? https://anydesk.com/It is free for privat
use.

I have not look at this, thanks for the lead. I suspect it
will be like teamview so traffic is routed via external
servers. If so I think just connecting to a VNC style
server to see my desktop would be preferable.

I thought Teamviewer and AnyDesk would help establish the
initial connection, but then the actual traffic is P2P.


--- OpenXP 5.0.46
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

https://anydesk.com/ It is free for privat use.

I have not look at this, thanks for the lead. I suspect it will be
like teamview so traffic is routed via external servers. If so I
think just connecting to a VNC style server to see my desktop would
be preferable.

to me vnc was not very smooth and stable. but if i had to use it, i used
it via vpn (my dsl router offers a vpn functionality) and then from
inside my lan with vnc.

but in general i prefer anydesk or teamviewer. are you sure they route
the traffic via external server always?

ps: when i was on windows, google remote desktop was quite smooth too.
But it is not working as before now that i am using linux.

Mindsurfer

--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv7l)
* Origin: FuNToPia telnet://funtopia.ddnss.eu:2023 (21:3/119)

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Not for me :)

I agree with vk3jed. At least in this case when working on the BBS or other FTN things like the husky stuff and binkd. This software is all command line stuff and a desktop is not any help when working with any of that.

A desktop is great too.. and I love the desktop for browsing the web or playing DOOM or quake.. ;) but when working on the BBS or BBSing a command line is
where it is at.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Greetings Avon!

Tuesday September 29 2020 13:08, you wrote to Blue White about an urgent matter!:

On 28 Sep 2020 at 03:51p, Blue White pondered and said...

Unless, of course, you mean a different nautilus besides the file
manager?

Thanks for the tips and the names to look at :)

Yep I'm talking about the file manager :)

I second using MC Avon, its a very versatile file manager and gives you side by side view of areas, which can be useful if you are copying or moving files in between machines on your network, you could have the machine your on,on the right hand side and sftp into another machine on your network on the left (or vise versa) and simply move/copy files across your network... pretty amazing and huge time saver.. check it out...


----
Regards,


Rick Smith (Nitro)

... Citation for slow BBSing: Going v.32bis in a v.FC lane
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (21:1/190.1)

Greetings Avon!

Sunday October 04 2020 11:47, you wrote to alterego about an urgent matter!:

I'm wanting to be able to use VNC from my windows machine so I can
remote in to the Debian box and do admin stuff from within my home
LAN. I' not thinking this is something I want to be able to do from outside the home.

There seem to be several web walk through articles for this some more detailed than others. I found this one https://tinyurl.com/yxt6ylmp
and this other one https://tinyurl.com/yxfuwd2k which both want me to
use ssh and install xfce.

Do you think is a good idea / best instructs to follow?

I use realvnc and as long as not commercial its completely free even the ability to access them from outside the house, up to 5 machines.. very slick..


----
Regards,


Rick Smith (Nitro)

... Honk if you love BBSing!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (21:1/190.1)

On 10-05-20 09:03, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

On 04 Oct 2020 at 09:17p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Not for me :)

Haha why not? ;)


... Clones are people two.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 10-04-20 16:47, Al wrote to Avon <=-

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Not for me :)

I agree with vk3jed. At least in this case when working on the BBS or other FTN things like the husky stuff and binkd. This software is all command line stuff and a desktop is not any help when working with any
of that.

Yeah I simply SSH into the BBS machine. If I need to do multiple things, I SSH multiple times. Leave the GUI for the SSH client side. :)

A desktop is great too.. and I love the desktop for browsing the web or playing DOOM or quake.. ;) but when working on the BBS or BBSing a
command line is where it is at.

Yes, s desktop/GUI doies have its purpose. I prefer to use them on machines that I use for web surfing and general tasks.


... On a clear disk you can seek forever.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Hey vk3jed,

I'm wanting to be able to use VNC from my windows machine so I
can remote in to the Debian box and do admin stuff from within
my home LAN. I' not thinking this is something I want to be

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)



\/orlon
VK3HEG


--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv6l)
* Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

On 05 Oct 2020 at 01:36a, Mindsurfer pondered and said...

to me vnc was not very smooth and stable. but if i had to use it, i used it via vpn (my dsl router offers a vpn functionality) and then from
inside my lan with vnc.

I've been using it with my windows box which is located elsewhere in my home and it's always been great.

but in general i prefer anydesk or teamviewer. are you sure they route
the traffic via external server always?

No I'm not. I do use Teamviewer and always thought that was all run through their servers... but I could well be wrong.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 04 Oct 2020 at 04:47p, Al pondered and said...

I agree with vk3jed. At least in this case when working on the BBS or other FTN

things like the husky stuff and binkd. This software is all command line stuff and a desktop is not any help when working with any of that.

A desktop is great too.. and I love the desktop for browsing the web or playing

Will just have to agree to disagree on this one... :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 04 Oct 2020 at 11:18p, Rick Smith pondered and said...

I second using MC Avon, its a very versatile file manager and gives you side by

Thanks :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 04 Oct 2020 at 11:24p, Rick Smith pondered and said...

I use realvnc and as long as not commercial its completely free even the ability to access them from outside the house, up to 5 machines.. very slick..

I found this today, there are some limits in that the traffic is routed via
the internet, if you want just a direct connect between 2 systems over the
home LAN you can't do that (I think) with the 'free home version' ..

Thanks for pointing me to this, I have used realvnc quite a lot before. But earlier less crippled versions of it :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 05 Oct 2020 at 07:34p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Not for me :)

Haha why not? ;)

because I like to look at desktops :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 05 Oct 2020 at 04:12p, vorlon pondered and said...

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)

Go to the head of the class young man, pass go and collect $200

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Greetings Avon!

Tuesday October 06 2020 16:57, you wrote to me about an urgent matter!:

* Forwarded from area 'fsx_net'
On 04 Oct 2020 at 11:24p, Rick Smith pondered and said...

I use realvnc and as long as not commercial its completely free
even the ability to access them from outside the house, up to 5
machines.. very slick..

I found this today, there are some limits in that the traffic is
routed via the internet, if you want just a direct connect between 2 systems over the home LAN you can't do that (I think) with the 'free
home version' ..

Not sure I know what you mean routed through internet? I use a local ip to get to one machine or the other, I unplugged my UDM Pro from the internet and can still get to all my vnc machines. It gives you the ability to get to them from the internet but you do not need the internet to access all the machines you want on your local network.


----
Regards,


Rick Smith (Nitro)

... Citation for slow BBSing: Going v.32bis in a v.FC lane
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (21:1/190.1)

On 05 Oct 2020 at 11:31p, Rick Smith pondered and said...

Not sure I know what you mean routed through internet? I use a local ip
to get to one machine or the other, I unplugged my UDM Pro from the internet and can still get to all my vnc machines. It gives you the ability to get to them from the internet but you do not need the
internet to access all the machines you want on your local network.

https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/pricing/

I'm referring to the 'direct connectivity' feature, but if I misunderstand
it, I apologise.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 10-05-20 16:12, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Hey vk3jed,

I'm wanting to be able to use VNC from my windows machine so I
can remote in to the Debian box and do admin stuff from within
my home LAN. I' not thinking this is something I want to be

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)

Avon needs reducating. :P I do use PuTTY from a Windows desktop here. ;)


... Pentium Myth #1: The computer only does what you tell it.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 10-06-20 16:58, Avon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

On 05 Oct 2020 at 07:34p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Not for me :)

Haha why not? ;)

because I like to look at desktops :)

And efficiency goes down the toilet. :P


... Dew knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl mistakes!
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

And efficiency goes down the toilet. :P

Now now, efficiency for you perhaps. Not necessarily everyone.

Some people think that using a mouse is less efficient than using a keyboard. That's really an extension of using the command line vs using a desktop.

Computers running BBS networks are more than powerful enough to support a desktop running at the same time, so really your being wasteful not running a desktop, all those idle cycles :P

But really, it comes down to preference. If it were on a minimal VPS I can see a desktop being more hassle than it's worth, but on a computer with a monitor plugged in, why not?

If you're more comfortable using a desktop, install a desktop I say. After all, our computers are meant to work for us, not the other way around.

I use a mouse all the time when I'm coding... maybe that makes me inferior to a keyboard wiz but I don't really care :)

Andrew



--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

Hello Avon!

** On Tuesday 06.10.20 - 16:57, Avon wrote to Rick Smith:

I use realvnc and as long as not commercial its
completely free even the ability to access them from
outside the house, up to 5 machines.. very slick..

I found this today, there are some limits in that the
traffic is routed via the internet, if you want just a
direct connect between 2 systems over the home LAN you
can't do that (I think) with the 'free home version' ..

I use TightVNC to control pcs (Windows) within the same LAN. I
like the full GUI presentation and seeing the familiarity of
the remote desktop. I experimented with UltraVNC for a little
while, but I switched to TightVNC for some reason.


--- OpenXP 5.0.46
* Origin: Ogg's WestCoast Point (21:4/106.21)

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)

Go to the head of the class young man, pass go and collect $200

You cheapskate. That means I would only get $185.71 AUD... #-(






\/orlon
VK3HEG


--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv6l)
* Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)

Avon needs reducating. :P I do use PuTTY from a Windows desktop
here. ;)

We can lead him to water, but just like a horse can't force him. *-)


He needs to see the light on his own. #_)



\/orlon
VK3HEG


--- MagickaBBS v0.15alpha (Linux/armv6l)
* Origin: \/orlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

Greetings Avon!

Tuesday October 06 2020 19:53, you wrote to me about an urgent matter!:

https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/pricing/

I'm referring to the 'direct connectivity' feature, but if I
misunderstand it, I apologise.

No worries, it is worth checking out.. easy as heck to setup on any OS I run it on debian, pi and windows


----
Regards,


Rick Smith (Nitro)

... It was good BBSing with you @F
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (21:1/190.1)

On 06 Oct 2020, 08:11p, Vk3jed said the following...

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)

Avon needs reducating. :P I do use PuTTY from a Windows desktop here.
;)

Now, now... Avon needs to get a handle on how Linux works, which is easier to do with the GUI. Give him some time to learn, then he can start looking at
how much he can do with just SSH. ;)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

On 06 Oct 2020 at 08:03a, Ogg pondered and said...

I use TightVNC to control pcs (Windows) within the same LAN. I
like the full GUI presentation and seeing the familiarity of
the remote desktop. I experimented with UltraVNC for a little
while, but I switched to TightVNC for some reason.

Yeah, I've been using RealVNC for some years and a similar setup.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 06 Oct 2020 at 11:25p, vorlon pondered and said...

Go to the head of the class young man, pass go and collect $200

You cheapskate. That means I would only get $185.71 AUD... #-(

Oh dear sorry about that, keep the GST.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 06 Oct 2020 at 12:40p, Black Panther pondered and said...

Now, now... Avon needs to get a handle on how Linux works, which is
easier to do with the GUI. Give him some time to learn, then he can
start looking at how much he can do with just SSH. ;)

Heh, I've yet to learn how to install and configure SSH - bahahah

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 07 Oct 2020, 08:38a, Avon said the following...

Heh, I've yet to learn how to install and configure SSH - bahahah

Oooooo, sounds like we need a How-To written on that topic. :)


---

Black Panther(RCS)
aka Dan Richter
Castle Rock BBS
telnet://bbs.castlerockbbs.com
http://www.castlerockbbs.com
http://github.com/DRPanther
The sparrows are flying again...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2020/09/27 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Castle Rock BBS - bbs.castlerockbbs.com - (21:1/186)

Will just have to agree to disagree on this one... :)

Agreed!

Have you tried ssh? I don't mean to be pushy but I think that is just what you need. :)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

Heh, I've yet to learn how to install and configure SSH - bahahah

It's probably already installed.. just needs to be enabled.

A few things to configure how it works but once setup I think it'll do what you want.

I've used ssh exclusively for years (on a server).

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106.1)

On 10-06-20 20:27, apam wrote to Vk3jed <=-

And efficiency goes down the toilet. :P

Now now, efficiency for you perhaps. Not necessarily everyone.

Well, at least on today's hardware, the overhead of VNC isn't like it was when I first started using it.

Some people think that using a mouse is less efficient than using a keyboard. That's really an extension of using the command line vs using
a desktop.

True. For me, it's a lot easier to blindly send a sequence of commands than it is to blindly use a mouse - the latter requires constant monitoring of its location and state to use, as well as constant control. Keyboard, I can send a few keystrokes, go away, do something else while waiting, and then some more keystrokes. ;)

Computers running BBS networks are more than powerful enough to support
a desktop running at the same time, so really your being wasteful not running a desktop, all those idle cycles :P

I seem to find places for thos cycles. ;P

But really, it comes down to preference. If it were on a minimal VPS I
can see a desktop being more hassle than it's worth, but on a computer with a monitor plugged in, why not?

Sure, if I had a local monitor on a sufficiently powerful system, why not (not all systems here meet that criteria). :)

If you're more comfortable using a desktop, install a desktop I say.
After all, our computers are meant to work for us, not the other way around.

I use a mouse all the time when I'm coding... maybe that makes me
inferior to a keyboard wiz but I don't really care :)

Yeah I use a mouse a bit, but like to get away from it as well, because it does take more effort to use than the keyboard for a lot of things - my fine motor coordination is rather mentally demanding. :/


... A few feathers short of a whole duck.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 10-06-20 23:28, vorlon wrote to Vk3jed <=-

VNC? Way overkill. I just use SSH. :)

Your fogetting that Avon, comes from a windows world. #-)

Avon needs reducating. :P I do use PuTTY from a Windows desktop
here. ;)

We can lead him to water, but just like a horse can't force him. *-)

LOL true. Well, I almost switched to using VNC instead of a local X server for email (runs on Linux), but I couldn't work out how to do clipboard copy/paste between UltraVNC and the local machine. So I had to go back to using X for now. But VNC actually performs better (and doesn't die of the session is interrupted).

He needs to see the light on his own. #_)

True. ;)


... Trilogy (n). Series of three books, sometimes more.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 10-06-20 12:40, Black Panther wrote to Vk3jed <=-

On 06 Oct 2020, 08:11p, Vk3jed said the following...

Now, now... Avon needs to get a handle on how Linux works, which is
easier to do with the GUI. Give him some time to learn, then he can
start looking at how much he can do with just SSH. ;)

*puts old fart hat on*

Back in my early Linux days, the GUI tools I had were largely too buggy to use, so I had to learn the command line from the word go. :) The advantage was that the command line has been more "portable" between distributions, though that's becoming less of an issue now, with the samme GUI tools appearing across more distros, and distros adopting different ways of storing basic information (like network settings).


... Each experiment, success or failure, is a learning experience.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 10-07-20 08:38, Avon wrote to Black Panther <=-

On 06 Oct 2020 at 12:40p, Black Panther pondered and said...

Now, now... Avon needs to get a handle on how Linux works, which is
easier to do with the GUI. Give him some time to learn, then he can
start looking at how much he can do with just SSH. ;)

Heh, I've yet to learn how to install and configure SSH - bahahah

aot install openssh-server on a modern Debian based distro will get you a server. On your Windows client, PuTTY does a good job. :)


... Q:Who do you Pick to Win the Ball Game? A:The Team with the most points. === MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

Rick wrote (2020-10-06):

https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/pricing/

I'm referring to the 'direct connectivity' feature, but if I
misunderstand it, I apologise.

No worries, it is worth checking out.. easy as heck to setup on any OS I run it on debian, pi and windows

Do you need to register/signup on realvnc.com to use the free version? Does the realvnc client/server send some data to realvnc.com?

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Well, at least on today's hardware, the overhead of VNC isn't like it was when
I first started using it.

That may be true, but we're talking about a specific case today, not when you started using it.

True. For me, it's a lot easier to blindly send a sequence of commands than it
is to blindly use a mouse - the latter requires constant monitoring of its location and state to use, as well as constant control.

I can't touch type, I have to look at the screen, and no a mouse does not need constant control. Most of the time you are infact using the keyboard, mouse is just a tool to help with that. I mean you don't enter text with your mouse do you? You just select where you want it to go.

location and state to use, as well as constant control. Keyboard, I can send a
few keystrokes, go away, do something else while waiting, and then some more
keystrokes. ;)

And you can do that when using a mouse too, because the mouse isn't being used in one constant session, it's many smaller sessions.

You often talk about web forums being difficult for you to use. Yet I find web forums to be easy to use. Would it be right for me to say you should just get used to it?

It's a common theme among technical people to look down their nose at people who are less "elite" than them. Using the command line vs using graphical tools is just one thing, using a mouse, how obscure your window manager is. If you use freebsd or linux or (gasp) windows.

It's all crap. use the tools you're most comfortable with, if they get the job done then what's the issue?

I say if someone wants to use a desktop on their server, so be it. It's not for me to judge. I'd rather help them learn the graphical tools they're comfortable with than try and force command line tools that they are not.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts.

Andrew


--- TitanFTN (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: Wunderlust BBS - wunderlust.ddns.net:2023 (21:1/126)

apam wrote (2020-10-07):

It's all crap. use the tools you're most comfortable with, if they get
the job done then what's the issue?

I guess different people are differently wired. I'm not very good at remembering shortcuts or command line options. I also have problems switching between different programs that do things differently. It's easier for me too switch between different inconsistent GUI applications than to switch between differing TUI apps.


I still use SSH for the server and always have a terminal open and use CLI commands. But I still prefer a GUI desktop over a tmux session. I think I'm more the visual/spacial type. Never could get ued to vim/emacs.

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

Greetings Oli!

Wednesday October 07 2020 10:52, you wrote to me about an urgent matter!:

* Forwarded from area 'fsx_net'
Rick wrote (2020-10-06):

https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/pricing/

I'm referring to the 'direct connectivity' feature, but if I
misunderstand it, I apologise.

No worries, it is worth checking out.. easy as heck to setup on
any OS I run it on debian, pi and windows

Do you need to register/signup on realvnc.com to use the free version? Does the realvnc client/server send some data to realvnc.com?

you only need to register online if you intend on accessing it from outside your local network..


----
Regards,


Rick Smith (Nitro)

... recipes: the license plates of BBSing.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ----> Abacus Sysop Point --->>>>bbs.abon.us:2323 (21:1/190.1)

Rick wrote (2020-10-07):

Greetings Oli!

Do you need to register/signup on realvnc.com to use the free
version? Does the realvnc client/server send some data to
realvnc.com?

you only need to register online if you intend on accessing it from outside your local network..

I really prefer open source software, but RealVNC just works:

- shared clipboard
- screen resolution scaling
- systemd service

---
* Origin: (21:3/102)

On 06 Oct 2020 at 08:27p, apam pondered and said...

Now now, efficiency for you perhaps. Not necessarily everyone.

Thank you.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 07 Oct 2020 at 07:37p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

aot install openssh-server on a modern Debian based distro will get you a server. On your Windows client, PuTTY does a good job. :)

Yep thanks, will get to this soon-ish.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 10-07-20 22:11, apam wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I can't touch type, I have to look at the screen, and no a mouse does

Neither can I - similar motor/sensory issues, but lesser impact on keyboards than mice.

not need constant control. Most of the time you are infact using the keyboard, mouse is just a tool to help with that. I mean you don't
enter text with your mouse do you? You just select where you want it to go.

I meant when using it, and it's a relatively high load on my fine motor
ontrol.

And you can do that when using a mouse too, because the mouse isn't
being used in one constant session, it's many smaller sessions.

Slightly and subtly different emphasis, hard to explain.

You often talk about web forums being difficult for you to use. Yet I
find web forums to be easy to use. Would it be right for me to say you should just get used to it?

Fair point, and you've taken this all too seriously for what was a lighthearted poke.

It's a common theme among technical people to look down their nose at people who are less "elite" than them. Using the command line vs using graphical tools is just one thing, using a mouse, how obscure your
window manager is. If you use freebsd or linux or (gasp) windows.

I'm using Windows right now, so there. :P But when it comes to desktops, I've always been one for a bit of variety, though for now, Linux has to be done remotely or on a netbook, for lack of space. Hopefully in the new house, I will have a monitor, keyboard and mouse back on the shack computer (yes, it does have a GUI).


... Bureaucrats cut red tape, lengthwise
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 08 Oct 2020 at 03:54p, Vk3jed pondered and said...

find web forums to be easy to use. Would it be right for me to say yo should just get used to it?

Fair point, and you've taken this all too seriously for what was a lighthearted poke.

I know you mean well, but in text only chat it's hard at times to tell where light hearted ribbing stops and pressing the point begins. Rest assured I get the point you've been making even if I may not adopt it due to my own
personal prefs.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)