Hello Dennisk!

** On Monday 04.05.20 - 11:08, Dennisk wrote to Richard Menedetter:

To be honest, I'm just annoyed that things got to a state where I
struggled with a Pentium-M 1.66 GHz with 1G of ram to view basic webpages.
That and I remember having to provide support for web apps which required not just IE, but a specific version of IE, because people in their wisdom thought to use browser and version specific extensions. I simply can't accept a status quo where so much computing power is needed for simple tasks, it's just not justifiable. There MUST be a design error in there somewhere. I get why things are the way they are and the arguments to a degree make sense. But still, what we have now is from people deciding to push technology past its design.

At first, I was proud of myself when I managed to build up my Win ME pc to
a point where I could burn MP3 CDs, configure the pc as a "server"
providing a gateway to the internet (poking holes in the firewall) for a couple of other pcs on my network, tweek the settings to get very close to the 2GB max ram that the pc harware supported, use it to support via
remote control, and a few other things - all the while still only having dialup!

But a new reality gradually creeped in when some websites wouldn't
cooperate with the current browser I was using. And newer versions of browsers simply weren't available for WinME. :(

I managed to overcome that limitation by installing Ubuntu. The pc worked reasonably well for a couple years after that. But the max 2GB ram proved
to be a limitation after a few more Ubuntu updates. And again, the
browser program was the first sign of "not good enough".

There is good reason to put applications over the internet, but it shouldn't have been over "HTTP", which is to transfer HyperText. Perhaps something like "ATP", Application Transfer Protocol should have been developed (which could use HTTP as a subset), allowing the functionality available in freephototool, but also allowing HTTP to be implemented in a more pure, simpler fashion.

I don't know what they're doing on Facebook, but it takes at least 15
seconds to load the main page while it takes another 15 secs for all the tracking shit to settle down before I can succeed to do my first PG DN.
And this is using a modest 3Mbps 4G/3G mobile data service via my cell
phone as a hotspot. Consequently, I rarely bother with FB anymore.





../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.43
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

August Abolins wrote to Dennisk <=-

Hello Dennisk!

** On Monday 04.05.20 - 11:08, Dennisk wrote to Richard Menedetter:

At first, I was proud of myself when I managed to build up my Win ME pc
to a point where I could burn MP3 CDs, configure the pc as a "server" providing a gateway to the internet (poking holes in the firewall) for
a couple of other pcs on my network, tweek the settings to get very
close to the 2GB max ram that the pc harware supported, use it to
support via remote control, and a few other things - all the while
still only having dialup!

Win Me? Oh, I still feel the scars from that OS, and I didn't even use it, just provides a little support for it. I moved to Linux in 2000, gradually.

But a new reality gradually creeped in when some websites wouldn't cooperate with the current browser I was using. And newer versions of browsers simply weren't available for WinME. :(

I managed to overcome that limitation by installing Ubuntu. The pc
worked reasonably well for a couple years after that. But the max 2GB
ram proved to be a limitation after a few more Ubuntu updates. And
again, the browser program was the first sign of "not good enough".

An alternative was simply to never update your OS, which is what I did. It did mean not updating browsers, and software as well, but I was able to use Red Hat Linux 7.3 up until 2009 on a 700MHz machine with 384M RAM. I don't do that now, as its probably not a good practice.

I don't know what they're doing on Facebook, but it takes at least 15 seconds to load the main page while it takes another 15 secs for all
the tracking shit to settle down before I can succeed to do my first PG DN. And this is using a modest 3Mbps 4G/3G mobile data service via my
cell phone as a hotspot. Consequently, I rarely bother with FB
anymore.

I think part of it is that the HTTP protocol wasn't designed to handle small packets of traffic going back and forth. It was designed for occasional requests of documents. People developing more active webpages simply abused the protocol and HTML, and browsers had to bloat to support it. As a result, problems which shouldn't have existed were created, and instead of rethinking the basic technology underneath, people invented new wrong solutions.

FB is horrible design. I joined because someone was too lazy to simply send e-mails. A good example of design is the D Language Forum at forum.dlang.org. It's web based, simple and FAST. But better still, it's actually a front end to an NNTP backend, so you can use a newgroup reader to access it as well. Good use of existing technology to solve a problem. This is the way it should be done.

... Dennis Katsonis
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Mind's Eye BBS - mindseye.ddns.net - Australia (3:633/416)

On 14/05/2020 6:27 a.m., Dennisk : August Abolins wrote:

Win Me? Oh, I still feel the scars from that OS, and I didn't
even use it, just provides a little support for it. I moved to
Linux in 2000, gradually.

I was a bit out of the loop when WinME rolled out, so I was unawares of some of the problems people reported about it. But I was in the market for a new 486 pc
to replace an aging 386 and WinME came along with the package from a local shop.

I applied all the tweaks and reg fixes that I eventually learned about. The system was quite smooth-running after that. It was up 24/7 for most of the time
as it was the gateway server to my router/dialup to supply access to the internet from a couple of other computers I used at home.

I managed to overcome that limitation by installing Ubuntu. The
pc worked reasonably well for a couple years after that. But
the max 2GB ram proved to be a limitation after a few more
Ubuntu updates. And again, the browser program was the first
sign of "not good enough".

An alternative was simply to never update your OS, which is what
I did. It did mean not updating browsers, and software as well,
but I was able to use Red Hat Linux 7.3 up until 2009 on a
700MHz machine with 384M RAM. I don't do that now, as its
probably not a good practice.

Actually, the last Ubuntu I had on the ex-WinME machine was "ok". I even thought of rolling back a version. But the task seemed daunting. I don't remember the CPU speed of the pc, but it was just not performing as snappy with the mp3 processing and browsing as I wanted anymore. Keep in mind, I was still on dialup for my internet. So experimenting with other distros was not going to work. I received the original Ubuntu from their free rollout of CDs.

I don't know what they're doing on Facebook, but it takes at
least 15 seconds to load the main page while it takes another
15 secs for all the tracking shit to settle down..

I think part of it is that the HTTP protocol wasn't designed to
handle small packets of traffic going back and forth...

Ah.. yeah. I can't really do anything and get a proper keyboard response until all that activity has stopped.

FB is horrible design. I joined because someone was too lazy to
simply send e-mails.

Same here. Mostly, my cousins. One likes to use PicCollage. I hate that! The combined picture is too small to appreciate the individual pics. It's probably just fine on her 43" screen. :( Some people shouldn't be allowed to use a computer, imho, :/ People using FB have no sense of computer bandwidth and efficiency, not to mention privacy (but that's a whole different story).

A good example of design is the D Language
Forum at forum.dlang.org. It's web based, simple and FAST.

YES, very! It loaded in a snap. Navigation seems instantaneous. Nicely done.

Something like that for echomail on the web (to replace the current offerings) would be very nice.

But
better still, it's actually a front end to an NNTP backend, so
you can use a newgroup reader to access it as well. Good use of
existing technology to solve a problem. This is the way it
should be done.

I like the nntp option too. (See below.) Nicely conceived.

--- TB(Stealth)/Win7
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)