• Create message bases

    From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to ALL on Sun Feb 21 16:43:00 2021
    Can GoldEd create message areas ? or do I need to create them using a BBS first before I can edit them with GoldEd ?

    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 21 05:53:00 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to ALL on Sun Feb 21 2021 04:43 pm

    Can GoldEd create message areas ? or do I need to create them using a BBS first before I can edit them with GoldEd ?

    My golded does create message areas if they doesn't already exist.

    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    I am using a fairly current golded on linux. I assume that will also be the case on your version and OS, but I don't know.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Good judgement comes from experience which comes from poor judgement
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Mon Feb 22 00:41:00 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    21 Feb 21, Marceline Jones wrote to ALL:

    Can GoldEd create message areas?
    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    Yes, even your version should be able to create *.msg type message areas. ;)

    or do I need to create them using a BBS first before I can edit them
    with GoldEd ?

    Depending on your setup and what you want to do with goldeds echos that is the recommended way. Your BBS usually doesn't know goldeds self created areas. If your BBS should use those message areas it's easier to create areas with the BBS and use the areafile import to teach those to golded automatically.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Thu Feb 25 21:35:00 2021
    Can GoldEd create message areas?
    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    Yes, even your version should be able to create *.msg type message
    areas. ;)

    Can I get GoldEd to create different message base formats for different echo areas and use them seemlessly at the same time ?

    or do I need to create them using a BBS first before I can edit them
    with GoldEd ?

    Depending on your setup and what you want to do with goldeds echos
    that is the recommended way. Your BBS usually doesn't know goldeds
    self created areas. If your BBS should use those message areas it's
    easier to create areas with the BBS and use the areafile import to
    teach those to golded automatically.
    Regards

    Well, I am thinking about running a mail-only node and want to know if I can use GoldEd for reading/writing mail or inspecting/debugging packets. Also there are area statistics generators that I would like to use that require message bases.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to ALAN IANSON on Thu Feb 25 21:36:00 2021
    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    I am using a fairly current golded on linux. I assume that will also
    be the case on your version and OS, but I don't know.

    I want to use a classic version of GoldEd because they are packaged with ful documentation (I noticed that the new builds have no documentation).

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Thu Feb 25 12:44:00 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    25 Feb 2021 21:35, from Marceline Jones -> KAI RICHTER:

    Can I get GoldEd to create different message base formats for
    different echo areas and use them seemlessly at the same time ?

    Sure!

    Well, I am thinking about running a mail-only node and want to know if
    I can use GoldEd for reading/writing mail or inspecting/debugging
    packets. Also there are area statistics generators that I would like
    to use that require message bases.

    Sure you can use it for reading/writing mail. That what it is for.
    You cannot use it for debugging packets, as it works on already tossed packets (ie. message base).

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Hopeless: High message: 943432. Message you last read: 59.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: I'm on the see-food diet - see food, eat it! (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Thu Feb 25 12:48:50 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    25 Feb 2021 21:36, from Marceline Jones -> ALAN IANSON:

    I want to use a classic version of GoldEd because they are packaged
    with ful documentation (I noticed that the new builds have no documentation).

    There is a documentation package for Golded+.
    It is an archive of its own.

    Using ancient versions of Golded is not a good idea!
    They work nearly the same.
    Just use the altest release of Golded+!

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Let's lay in bed all day and trade sexual favors for trips to the fridge. --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: What is this `Twit list' and how can I get in on it? (2:310/31)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Marceline Jones on Thu Feb 25 04:16:06 2021
    Hello Marceline,

    I want to use a classic version of GoldEd because they are packaged
    with ful documentation (I noticed that the new builds have no documentation).

    I'm not sure if the documentation has been updated recently but there is a documentation archive as well as a configuration archive. You can also download the source. It contains all the example configs and manuals as well as the source.

    A good place to find golded files is download.golded.org.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Marceline Jones on Thu Feb 25 14:32:26 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    Thursday February 25 2021 21:36, you wrote to ALAN IANSON:

    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    I am using a fairly current golded on linux. I assume that will
    also be the case on your version and OS, but I don't know.

    I want to use a classic version of GoldEd because they are packaged
    with ful documentation (I noticed that the new builds have no documentation).

    The main document for Golded is around 15 years old.

    The supplimentals are in Russian and some in English but written by a non English native speaker so its a question of reading between the words and the lines :)

    The biggest problem is there are versions of the sources all over the place so it is very difficult to find 'THE' latest version or versions.

    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Marceline Jones on Fri Feb 26 01:34:32 2021
    On 2021-02-21 16:43:00, Marceline Jones (1:103/705) wrote to ALL:

    Can GoldEd create message areas ? or do I need to create them using a
    BBS first before I can edit them with GoldEd ?

    Other people have answered this already, but something to note is GoldED won't create subdirectories for you.

    Suppose you have this in GOLDED.CFG:

    AreaDef JAMAREA "My JAM echo" 0 echo JAM c:\msg\jam\jamarea

    If either c:\msg or c:\msg\jam don't exist, GoldED won't create them, and will possibly crash with a terse error. Worse, it does this after you save the message you just wrote.

    Or at least that's been my experience.

    Concievably there's now a config setting to enable automatic subdirectory creation. Or it would be nice if there was.

    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    If my history is correct that's circa 1997.

    Beware of any Y2K bugs with the old versions. :)

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Marceline Jones on Fri Feb 26 01:42:32 2021
    On 2021-02-25 21:35:00, Marceline Jones (1:103/705) wrote to KAI RICHTER:

    Well, I am thinking about running a mail-only node and want to know if I can use GoldEd for reading/writing mail or inspecting/debugging packets. Also there are area statistics generators that I would like to use that require message bases.

    GoldED can inspect message bases (press 'i' when viewing a message) but not packets.

    For viewing packets there is pktinfo, which is part of Husky's HPT.

    David Nugent's InspectA file manager for DOS & OS/2 from 1993 can also read Fido packets:

    http://blizzard.ozzmosis.com/bbs/insp110d.zip InspectA 1.10 for DOS http://blizzard.ozzmosis.com/bbs/insp110p.zip InspectA 1.10 for OS/2 http://blizzard.ozzmosis.com/bbs/insp110k.zip InspectA 1.10 free registration key

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Marceline Jones on Fri Feb 26 01:52:52 2021
    On 2021-02-25 21:36:00, Marceline Jones (1:103/705) wrote to ALAN IANSON:

    I want to use a classic version of GoldEd because they are packaged with ful documentation (I noticed that the new builds have no documentation).

    Most of the documentation for GoldED 3.0 still applies to GoldED+ 1.1.5.

    The GoldED+ 1.0 documentation is here:

    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/master/manuals/gold_ref.txt
    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/master/manuals/gold_usr.txt

    With changes since 1.0 here:

    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/master/docs/notework.txt

    Though this document itself is now 9 years old. :)

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Vincent Coen on Fri Feb 26 02:14:12 2021
    On 2021-02-25 14:32:26, Vincent Coen (2:250/1) wrote to Marceline Jones:

    The biggest problem is there are versions of the sources all over the place so it is very difficult to find 'THE' latest version or versions.

    Earlier this week Max Vasilyev mentioned the SourceForge repo for GoldED+ is now readonly, abandoned in favour of GitHub:

    https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/

    My current problem is that I've hit a snag building the OS/2 version, and there are no build instructions. :(

    But I'll try again later in the week.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to andrew clarke on Thu Feb 25 22:45:33 2021
    Hello andrew!

    Friday February 26 2021 02:14, you wrote to me:

    On 2021-02-25 14:32:26, Vincent Coen (2:250/1) wrote to Marceline
    Jones:

    The biggest problem is there are versions of the sources all over
    the place so it is very difficult to find 'THE' latest version or
    versions.

    Earlier this week Max Vasilyev mentioned the SourceForge repo for
    GoldED+ is now readonly, abandoned in favour of GitHub:

    https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/

    My current problem is that I've hit a snag building the OS/2 version,
    and there are no build instructions. :(

    But I'll try again later in the week.

    OS/2 can be a problem as often applications use the O/S specific libraries and you need to have them installed - in some cases for the build, EMX ring a very
    small bell.

    Sorry I dumped OS/2 within a month of IBM having seem who or what was taking over maintenance or not.

    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to andrew clarke on Fri Feb 26 01:15:26 2021
    Hello andrew!

    26 Feb 21, andrew clarke wrote to Marceline Jones:

    Worse, it does this after you save the message you just wrote.

    Well, crashing after the message is saved is... save. ;-)

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Fri Feb 26 01:21:32 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    25 Feb 21, Marceline Jones wrote to KAI RICHTER:

    Can I get GoldEd to create different message base formats for
    different echo areas and use them seemlessly at the same time ?

    Yes. There may be restrictions if you want to use hudson base but there is no reason to use that stoneaged format. Hudson have a size limit and it stores all messages in one database. If that is corrupt then you will loose all mails. Todays formats use one database per area and in case of trouble only one area is affected.

    Well, I am thinking about running a mail-only node and want to know
    if I can use GoldEd for reading/writing mail or inspecting/debugging packets.

    Packets do not need to be inspected/debugged. The bugs are in the software that creates the packet so which software do you want to debug?

    Also there are area statistics generators that I would like
    to use that require message bases.

    Hm, isn't that the rear of the horse? Usually you have an area inside a message base and need a statistic tool then. The reverse way i have statistic tool and need a message area now is very uncommon.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

    Well, it was a long way from Blue Wave to node. What kind of other software do you plan to use? I went from offline qwk readers to point software and then to node software in point mode before i changed the aka to node.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Kai Richter on Fri Feb 26 23:23:50 2021
    On 2021-02-26 01:15:26, Kai Richter (2:240/77) wrote to andrew clarke:

    Worse, it does this after you save the message you just wrote.

    Well, crashing after the message is saved is... save. ;-)

    :-)

    I'm pretty sure if GoldED can't write to the messagebase for whatever reason it saves the message to a text file named golded.msg in the current directory.

    Though I recall that if you write a new message it will overwrite that file without prompting.

    I may be wrong there though.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to andrew clarke on Fri Feb 26 21:16:12 2021
    Hello andrew!

    26 Feb 21, andrew clarke wrote to Kai Richter:

    I'm pretty sure if GoldED can't write to the messagebase for whatever reason it saves the message to a text file named golded.msg in the
    current directory.

    True, it happend once in my long years of golded usage but i can't tell which versicn it was. Today it looks like golded.msg is filed with every keystroke.

    Though I recall that if you write a new message it will overwrite
    that file without prompting.

    I wrote a very long mail when golded crashed suddenly. Rare event and i was upset that my long mail was gone. When i restarted golded and answered the mail again golded said "unfinished message found, continue?" (or similar). I was very happy and surprised what golded could do.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to VINCENT COEN on Sun Feb 28 16:56:00 2021
    The biggest problem is there are versions of the sources all over the place so it is very difficult to find 'THE' latest version or versions.

    Isn't the official version from sourceforge ?

    Or is there some power struggle going on as to who controls the sources ?

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to ALAN IANSON on Sun Feb 28 16:57:00 2021
    I'm not sure if the documentation has been updated recently but there
    is a documentation archive as well as a configuration archive. You can also download the source. It contains all the example configs and
    manuals as well as the source.
    A good place to find golded files is download.golded.org.

    Looks like the GoldED+ manual is derived from 3.xx with additions (https://sourceforge.net/projects/golded-plus/files/golded-plus-manual/). Glancing the diff output between the 3.xx and GoldED+ manuals show minor differences.

    I think I will stick with 3.xx for now because it might be interesting to explore the differences between considerations taken by people who packaged a distribution that they wanted money for versus the laissez-faire reincarnation.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to ANDREW CLARKE on Sun Feb 28 16:58:00 2021
    Can GoldEd create message areas ? or do I need to create them using a
    BBS first before I can edit them with GoldEd ?

    Other people have answered this already, but something to note is
    GoldED won't create subdirectories for you.
    Suppose you have this in GOLDED.CFG:
    AreaDef JAMAREA "My JAM echo" 0 echo JAM c:\msg\jam\jamarea
    If either c:\msg or c:\msg\jam don't exist, GoldED won't create them,
    and will possibly crash with a terse error. Worse, it does this after
    you save the message you just wrote.
    Or at least that's been my experience.

    This is good to know.

    Concievably there's now a config setting to enable automatic
    subdirectory creation. Or it would be nice if there was.
    (I am using GoldED/386 3.00.Beta3).

    If my history is correct that's circa 1997.

    =================================================
    18/03/1998 05:43a 938,413 GED386.EXE =================================================

    Beware of any Y2K bugs with the old versions. :)

    Yes, I will bear this in mind.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Feb 28 16:59:00 2021
    There is a documentation package for Golded+.
    It is an archive of its own.

    Is there any reason why documentation is not included with the build ? Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end users ?

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to ANDREW CLARKE on Sun Feb 28 17:00:00 2021
    The GoldED+ 1.0 documentation is here:

    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/master/docs/n otework.txt
    Though this document itself is now 9 years old. :)

    This is why I have no confidence in GoldED+ because moving around GitHub just to find documentation gives the impression that the program is in perpetual snapshot or is incomplete.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Sun Feb 28 17:01:00 2021
    Yes. There may be restrictions if you want to use hudson base but
    there is no reason to use that stoneaged format. Hudson have a size
    limit and it stores all messages in one database. If that is corrupt
    then you will loose all mails. Todays formats use one database per
    area and in case of trouble only one area is affected.

    I think it is cool to use stoneaged formats. I can reserve Hudson for inactive or unimportant echoes like BBS_ADS.

    Packets do not need to be inspected/debugged. The bugs are in the
    software that creates the packet so which software do you want to
    debug?

    I want to check that packets contain the right messages and have been routed to the correct outbound directories. How do I check this without inspecting the packet ?

    Also there are area statistics generators that I would like
    to use that require message bases.

    Hm, isn't that the rear of the horse? Usually you have an area inside
    a message base and need a statistic tool then. The reverse way i have statistic tool and need a message area now is very uncommon.

    It is not uncommon. If I have a hammer, then I know I need a nail. What is the point of having a hammer if not to hammer something.

    Well, it was a long way from Blue Wave to node. What kind of other software do you plan to use? I went from offline qwk readers to point software and then to node software in point mode before i changed the
    aka to node.

    A journery of a single step begins with a thousand miles.

    I was thinking about running Fidonet on a Nintendo.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 01:00:59 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to ALAN IANSON on Sun Feb 28 2021 04:57 pm

    Looks like the GoldED+ manual is derived from 3.xx with additions (https://sourceforge.net/projects/golded-plus/files/golded-plus-manual/). Glancing the diff output between the 3.xx and GoldED+ manuals show minor differences.

    Yes, the golded we have today is a continuation of Odinn's original work by others.

    I think I will stick with 3.xx for now because it might be interesting to explore the differences between considerations taken by people who packaged a distribution that they wanted money for versus the laissez-faire reincarnation.

    Yes, those versions always worked well for me. I'm not sure when windows, linux and mac versions were introduced but you can always try them if you wish with you 3.xx config.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 09:59:34 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    28 Feb 2021 16:57, from Marceline Jones -> ALAN IANSON:

    I think I will stick with 3.xx

    I personally think that that is a _very_ bad idea!!

    Also PLEASE forget sourceforge!

    Please use Golded+ from github.

    It contains many bugfixes when compared to Ged 3!
    Sourceforge adds spyware to their downloads.
    And EVERYBODY left it a long time ago.
    I hope it dies a painful death soon!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldED https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/

    ONLY use github.
    Anything else is spyware infested ancient crap!

    for now because it might be interesting
    to explore the differences between considerations taken by people who packaged a distribution that they wanted money for versus the laissez-faire reincarnation.

    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Money may be the root of all evil, but greed is the fertilizer.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Advice is easier than helping. (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 10:06:28 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    28 Feb 2021 16:59, from Marceline Jones -> RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    There is a documentation package for Golded+.
    It is an archive of its own.
    Is there any reason why documentation is not included with the build?

    I have no clue.
    I guess historic reasons.
    Also the doc package is quit big, so it might be that people complained when they downloaded it always together with the binaries.

    Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end
    users?

    What the hell are you smoking???
    Stop it, it seems to negatively impact your cognitive capabilities!
    ;)

    CU, Ricsi

    ... You can't turn back the clock. But you can wind it up again.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: I cut it three times and it's still too short! (2:310/31)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 04:08:23 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Sun Feb 28 2021 17:01:00


    A journery of a single step begins with a thousand miles.

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    FTFY ;)


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 10:10:16 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    28 Feb 2021 17:00, from Marceline Jones -> ANDREW CLARKE:

    This is why I have no confidence in GoldED+

    I really do not understand your lack of confidence in Golded+.

    because moving around GitHub just to find documentation gives the impression that the program is in perpetual snapshot or is incomplete.

    It *IS* a perpetual snapshot!
    That is not bad.
    It contains everything from old Golded and adds features and bug fixes.

    So either download the source package.
    (it includes EVERYTHING to compile it and all cfgs and docs)
    Or download a binary package.

    https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/releases

    Do NOT use sourceforge for anything.
    They resort to extremely shady tactics!

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Isn't it strange how "wise" resembles being old and tired?
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Diplomacy: The patriotic lying for one's country. (2:310/31)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Richard Menedetter on Sun Feb 28 04:30:40 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Richard Menedetter to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 2021 09:59:34


    Sourceforge adds spyware to their downloads.

    no sir, they do not... that and other similar underhanded stuff was some of the first things removed when SF was bought by BIZX (now Slashdot Media) in Jan 2016...

    SF Owners:
    Slashdot Media (2019-today)
    BIZX, LLC (2016-2019)
    DHI Group, Inc. (2012-2016)
    Geeknet, Inc. (1999-2012)

    GeekNet and DHI (Dice Holdings) were the ones that did that... DHI moreso than GeekNet... but, again, that's all in the past and nothing like that is done today...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 10:50:46 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    28 Feb 21, Marceline Jones wrote to RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    Is there any reason why documentation is not included with the build ?
    Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end
    users ?

    No, the original golded author never had such attitudes, he was compeletely the contrary. The POTS call cost environment around the world was very complex. My cost table files were around 15 KB. That's why it was a difference if you distribute ~600 KB just because of an updated readme file or put the changelog into the executable distribution.

    With the (size differ, my personal cutted versions)
    goldref.txt 347231 9. Dez 1995
    goldusr.txt 125188 9. Dez 1995
    files golded had/have an excellent end user documentation.

    The split distribution allowed the user to decide if he wants to pay the phone cost for the transfer or not. Thus it was very user friendly.

    When golded went open source the voluntary code contributors continued those concept. Let me guess, they like coding much more than writing documentation. ;-)

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Richard Menedetter on Sun Feb 28 11:48:14 2021
    Hello Ricsi!

    28 Feb 21, Richard Menedetter wrote to Marceline Jones:

    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!

    Golded is paid software that was released into public with open source licence by Odinn around 31 Oct 1998. It had approved local area register sites. There should be a "register" information in old archives. As far as i remember the registration fee was around 40 DM. The key unlocked some features (like the random system? i can't remember) and was needed to run the beta versions.

    Regards

    Kai

    =============================================================================
    * Forwarded by Kai Richter (2:240/77)
    * Area : golded.ger
    * From : Matthias Lamm, 2:2468/9911 (22 Aug 94 23:26)
    * To : Alle
    * Subj : "GOLDED": Neue Files ============================================================================= Die folgenden Files gingen heute ein:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Area: GoldEd: All GoldEd Betareleases (BETAGOLD) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEXB0822.ZIP 380054 GoldED 2.50.Beta for DOS/386. Reg.users only! GEOB0822.ZIP 278371 GoldED 2.50.Beta for OS/2. Reg.users only!
    GEDB0822.ZIP 291110 GoldED 2.50.Beta for DOS. Reg.users only!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Total: 949535 Bytes in 3 File(s)

    GoldEd Regsite Germany (Code ML) - req. ORDER_ML.ARJ fuer Bestellinfos.

    Die Files sind nach kurzer Zeit ebenfalls bei folgenden Nodes verfuegbar:

    2:240/4005 Line 1 (ZYX 19.2) (GoldED RegSite Heinz-Josef Bomanns)
    2:240/4006 Line 2 (V.32b)
    2:240/4007 Line 3 (ISDN)
    2:240/4008 Line 4 (V.32T 19.2)

    2:2487/9516 Line 1 (USR H14) (GoldED RegSite Christoph Buesche)
    2:2487/9520 Line 2 (ISDN)

    2:246/8001 Line 1 (ZYX 19.2) (Donau BBS - Wolfgang Popp)
    2:246/8002 Line 2 (ISDN)
    2:246/8003 Line 3 (ISDN)

    2:2468/9901 Line 1 (ZYX 19.2) (News Box - Christoph Diehl)
    2:2468/9902 Line 2 (ISDN)
    2:2468/9903 Line 3 (V.FC 28.8)

    2:2468/9911 Line 1 (ZYX 19.2) (GoldED RegSite Matthias Lamm)
    2:2468/9912 Line 2 (V.FC 28.8)
    2:2468/9921 Line 3 (ZYX 19.2)
    2:2468/9923 Line 4 (ISDN)

    2:2468/29 Line 1 (V.FC 28.8) (SKD Box - Thorsten Kraus)
    2:2468/653 Line 2 (ZYX 19.2)
    2:2468/652 Line 3 (ZYX 19.2)
    2:2468/654 Line 4 (ISDN)

    So long

    Matthias

    +++
    + Origin: Lemmis System I - <old phone # deleted by forwarder> - (2:2468/9911) =============================================================================

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Kai Richter on Sun Feb 28 12:03:30 2021
    Hi Kai!

    28 Feb 2021 11:48, from Kai Richter -> Richard Menedetter:

    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!
    Golded is paid software that was released into public with open source

    Yes ... sorry.
    Very bad phrasing on my side.
    I meant that after it was released as open source by Odinn Sorensen.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." -Confucius
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Have we really become this shrill and simpleminded? (2:310/31)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Sun Feb 28 13:14:42 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    28 Feb 21, Marceline Jones wrote to KAI RICHTER:

    Yes. There may be restrictions if you want to use hudson base but
    there is no reason to use that stoneaged format.

    I think it is cool to use stoneaged formats.

    That's what Fidonet is. But there is no need to struggle with problems that the stoneage already solved. Even those solutions are still stoneaged. ;)

    Packets do not need to be inspected/debugged. The bugs are in the
    software that creates the packet so which software do you want to
    debug?

    I want to check that packets contain the right messages and have been routed to the correct outbound directories.

    That was done already when you use stoneaged software. If there are routing troubles then the software is old enough that this troubles would be known.

    How do I check this without inspecting the packet ?

    You could see it in the outbound directories itself or in the logfiles if your software tries to connect to another system.

    Hm, isn't that the rear of the horse? Usually you have an area
    inside a message base and need a statistic tool then. The reverse
    way i have statistic tool and need a message area now is very
    uncommon.

    It is not uncommon. If I have a hammer, then I know I need a nail.
    What is the point of having a hammer if not to hammer something.

    That's exactly what i was talking about, i don't need a hammer if there is nothing to hammer. It's common to have no hammer if there is no need to hammer anything.

    Well, it was a long way from Blue Wave to node. What kind of
    other software do you plan to use? I went from offline qwk
    readers to point software and then to node software in point mode
    before i changed the aka to node.

    I was thinking about running Fidonet on a Nintendo.

    Which one?

    And how many hours would you need for such a project?

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Marceline Jones on Wed Mar 3 17:10:09 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    Sunday February 28 2021 16:56, you wrote to me:

    The biggest problem is there are versions of the sources all over
    the place so it is very difficult to find 'THE' latest version or
    versions.

    Isn't the official version from sourceforge ?

    Or is there some power struggle going on as to who controls the
    sources ?

    No idea but there are various places to find sources but none with any updates in a long time - i.e., years.

    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to VINCENT COEN on Sun Mar 7 17:47:00 2021
    Isn't the official version from sourceforge ?

    Or is there some power struggle going on as to who controls the
    sources ?

    No idea but there are various places to find sources but none with any updates in a long time - i.e., years.

    How are people supposed to know where the official sources are ? Is it assumed that GitHub is where it is ?

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 7 17:58:00 2021
    Please use Golded+ from github.

    It contains many bugfixes when compared to Ged 3!
    Sourceforge adds spyware to their downloads.

    They only did that for the more popular downloads.

    And EVERYBODY left it a long time ago.
    I hope it dies a painful death soon!!

    Sourceforge is not bad. I is more suited to packaged applications. GitHub is more for source file perusal.

    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!

    The authors wanted money for it.

    Here is the content of the order form:

    ==================================================
    11/11/1997 05:58a 2,888 REGFRMWW.TXT

    Item: (Read the notes below!) Price: DKK USD Amount
    ( ) GoldED new registration [1] 120 $21 ______
    ( ) GoldED upgrade of existing key [1] 20 $4 ______

    ( ) GoldED for DOS (16 and 32 bit textmode) 80 $14 ______
    ( ) GoldED for OS/2 (32 bit textmode) 80 $14 ______
    ( ) GoldED for Win32 (32 bit textmode) 80 $14 ______
    ( ) GoldED for Linux (textmode) 80 $14 ______

    ( ) Friends discount, 20% off the price [2] (minus) ______
    ( ) Shipping and Handling (S&H) fee 30 $5 ______
    ( ) Currency conversion fee (if not paid in DKK) 50 $8 ______
    TOTAL ______ ==================================================

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 7 17:59:00 2021
    There is a documentation package for Golded+.
    It is an archive of its own.
    Is there any reason why documentation is not included with the build?

    I have no clue.
    I guess historic reasons.
    Also the doc package is quit big, so it might be that people
    complained when they downloaded it always together with the binaries.

    It is more professional to include documentation with binaries.

    Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end
    users?

    What the hell are you smoking???
    Stop it, it seems to negatively impact your cognitive capabilities!
    ;)

    I think GoldED+ was made for technical users because the documentation was so hard to find. Quite often these kinds of programmers say "Here you go, it works. Figure it out".

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to MARK LEWIS on Sun Mar 7 18:00:00 2021
    A journery of a single step begins with a thousand miles.

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    FTFY ;)

    But Kai Richter said I was starting from the rear of the horse.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 7 18:01:00 2021
    I really do not understand your lack of confidence in Golded+.

    because moving around GitHub just to find documentation gives the impression that the program is in perpetual snapshot or is incomplete.

    It *IS* a perpetual snapshot!
    That is not bad.
    It contains everything from old Golded and adds features and bug
    fixes.

    No it does not.

    I want a proper release distribution, with documentation and installer. That is what the people who sold GoldED had.

    So either download the source package.
    (it includes EVERYTHING to compile it and all cfgs and docs)
    Or download a binary package.

    Somebody in charge has to say "This is the current stable release".

    Do NOT use sourceforge for anything.
    They resort to extremely shady tactics!

    Which is why I use sourceforge for shady things.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Sun Mar 7 18:02:00 2021
    Is there any reason why documentation is not included with the build ?
    Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end
    users ?

    The split distribution allowed the user to decide if he wants to pay
    the phone cost for the transfer or not. Thus it was very user
    friendly.

    That is why there were local registrations sites in each region. Also, file distribution networks made these costs negligible. By the time GoldED went open source, telnet BBSes were prevalent.

    When golded went open source the voluntary code contributors continued those concept. Let me guess, they like coding much more than writing documentation. ;-)

    Not packaging their software properly shows they take no pride in their work.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Sun Mar 7 18:03:00 2021
    Yes. There may be restrictions if you want to use hudson base but
    there is no reason to use that stoneaged format.

    I think it is cool to use stoneaged formats.

    That's what Fidonet is. But there is no need to struggle with problems that the stoneage already solved. Even those solutions are still stoneaged. ;)

    If I ran QuickBBS, then I would use Hudson. What is the point of running QBBS if not to use Hudson ?

    I want to check that packets contain the right messages and have been routed to the correct outbound directories.

    That was done already when you use stoneaged software. If there are routing troubles then the software is old enough that this troubles
    would be known.

    You are assuming the software has no bugs.

    What if I want to check my packed messages match what the mailer's outbound queue says ?

    How do I check this without inspecting the packet ?

    You could see it in the outbound directories itself or in the logfiles
    if your software tries to connect to another system.

    Except outbound directories contain files like "EFAABCFF.mo0". I want a nice user interface to scroll through and open such packets and check the message contents.

    It is not uncommon. If I have a hammer, then I know I need a nail.
    What is the point of having a hammer if not to hammer something.

    That's exactly what i was talking about, i don't need a hammer if
    there is nothing to hammer. It's common to have no hammer if there is
    no need to hammer anything.

    It is also common to have a hammer.

    Well, it was a long way from Blue Wave to node. What kind of
    other software do you plan to use? I went from offline qwk
    readers to point software and then to node software in point mode
    before i changed the aka to node.

    I was thinking about running Fidonet on a Nintendo.

    Which one?

    And how many hours would you need for such a project?

    My point was I can skip all the other software and just go directly from QWK to a node.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 05:46:50 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to MARK LEWIS on Sun Mar 07 2021 18:00:00


    A journery of a single step begins with a thousand miles.

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    FTFY ;)

    But Kai Richter said I was starting from the rear of the horse.

    he might have... i was only correcting the saying with no other context...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 05:57:27 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Sun Mar 07 2021 18:03:00


    My point was I can skip all the other software and just go directly
    from QWK to a node.

    not really... QWK is lossy... especially with FTN messages... there is a lot of information lost when FTN messages are packed via QWK...

    it should be noted that QWK was shoehorned into FTN... it originates on a completely different network and has much different principles... QWK works for end users solely because it transfers the message body which is 99% of
    what they care about... QWK links messages by subject line which we all know is a fallacy and quite wrong in many cases... there are better ways to properly link message threads no matter what the subject lines are...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 13:52:46 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    07 Mar 2021 17:47, from Marceline Jones -> VINCENT COEN:

    How are people supposed to know where the official sources are?

    As I already written in a message to you.
    One way is to google golded, which will lead you to the Wikipedia page.
    And there you find this info:
    Website github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/

    Another way is asking here.

    I guess by now you should know where to find it!

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Every company has a test system. Some also have a production system.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: What does this red button do? (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 13:55:14 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    07 Mar 2021 17:58, from Marceline Jones -> RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!
    The authors wanted money for it.

    Yes ... I should have worded that better.
    I meant AFTER it has been released as open source by Odinn the original author.

    Long after this point in time:
    11/11/1997 05:58a

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Oxymoron: Soviet Union (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 13:58:38 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    07 Mar 2021 17:59, from Marceline Jones -> RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    It is more professional to include documentation with binaries.

    You seem not to be very familiar with how open source works.
    People do things for free in their spare time.
    If they need a feature they add it.
    If they do not like to write docs they will not.
    They contribute this work for free and for the benefit of us all.

    Feel free to compile a documentation package, and they will upload it if it makes sense.

    I think GoldED+ was made for technical users because the documentation
    was so hard to find. Quite often these kinds of programmers say "Here
    you go, it works. Figure it out".

    Well no.
    The vast majority of users were using Golded already.
    So they just exchange the new binaries.
    Most of them have set it up already for many years.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Chocolate is the true opiate of the masses. (2:310/31)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 14:03:08 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    07 Mar 2021 18:01, from Marceline Jones -> RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    It contains everything from old Golded and adds features and bug
    fixes.
    No it does not.

    What exactly is missing from the source tarball?

    I want a proper release distribution, with documentation and
    installer. That is what the people who sold GoldED had.

    And I want world peace!

    In the meantime I think it is REALLY better if you stick with your ancient package.
    Better for you, better for us.

    Somebody in charge has to say "This is the current stable release".

    here you are:
    https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/releases

    But the snapshots are as stable as the stable release.
    That is why most of us use the current snapshot.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. But the transition is troublesome.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: I am so drunk that I fell off the floor. (2:310/31)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 17:03:32 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    Sunday March 07 2021 17:58, you wrote to RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    Please use Golded+ from github.

    It contains many bugfixes when compared to Ged 3!
    Sourceforge adds spyware to their downloads.

    They only did that for the more popular downloads.

    And EVERYBODY left it a long time ago.
    I hope it dies a painful death soon!!

    Sourceforge is not bad. I is more suited to packaged applications.
    GitHub is more for source file perusal.

    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!

    The authors wanted money for it.

    Here is the content of the order form:

    ==================================================
    11/11/1997 05:58a 2,888 REGFRMWW.TXT

    Item: (Read the notes below!) Price: DKK USD Amount
    ( ) GoldED new registration [1] 120 $21 ______
    ( ) GoldED upgrade of existing key [1] 20 $4 ______

    ( ) GoldED for DOS (16 and 32 bit textmode) 80 $14 ______
    ( ) GoldED for OS/2 (32 bit textmode) 80 $14 ______
    ( ) GoldED for Win32 (32 bit textmode) 80 $14 ______
    ( ) GoldED for Linux (textmode) 80 $14 ______

    ( ) Friends discount, 20% off the price [2] (minus) ______
    ( ) Shipping and Handling (S&H) fee 30 $5 ______
    ( ) Currency conversion fee (if not paid in DKK) 50 $8 ______
    TOTAL ______ ==================================================

    That is a long time ago it has been freeware for many years(>10).


    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Rob Swindell@1:103/705 to mark lewis on Sun Mar 7 14:33:37 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: mark lewis to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 07 2021 05:57 am

    Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Sun Mar 07 2021 18:03:00


    My point was I can skip all the other software and just go directly from QWK to a node.

    not really... QWK is lossy... especially with FTN messages... there is a lot of information lost when FTN messages are packed via QWK...

    it should be noted that QWK was shoehorned into FTN... it originates on a completely different network and has much different principles... QWK works for end users solely because it transfers the message body which is 99% of what they care about... QWK links messages by subject line which we all know is a fallacy and quite wrong in many cases... there are better ways to properly link message threads no matter what the subject lines are...

    There are QWK extensions that address those shortcomings you mentioned: https://wiki.synchro.net/ref:qwk#headersdat
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #27:
    As long as there's, y'know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll. Norco, CA WX: 62.6јF, 62.0% humidity, 1 mph WNW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 23:36:50 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    07 Mar 21, Marceline Jones wrote to KAI RICHTER:

    The split distribution allowed the user to decide if he wants to
    pay the phone cost for the transfer or not. Thus it was very user
    friendly.

    That is why there were local registrations sites in each region. Also, file distribution networks made these costs negligible.

    File distribution networks pushed the files to the cheaper local area costs. But i still don't see the users need to download the documentation 3 times if they need the DOS, Windows and OS/2 version. This is at last a waste of resources, aka time and energy.

    By the time GoldED went open source, telnet BBSes were prevalent.

    And? As i said before, in other countries we had to pay for every local call and telnet access means IP access and Internet flatrate wasn't there in POTS/NGN migration time.

    When golded went open source the voluntary code contributors
    continued those concept. Let me guess, they like coding much more
    than writing documentation. ;-)

    Not packaging their software properly shows they take no pride in
    their work.

    I don't know what they take. But pride is not in the list of my guesses.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 7 23:00:38 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    07 Mar 21, Marceline Jones wrote to KAI RICHTER:

    I think it is cool to use stoneaged formats.

    That's what Fidonet is. But there is no need to struggle with
    problems that the stoneage already solved. Even those solutions
    are still stoneaged. ;)

    If I ran QuickBBS, then I would use Hudson. What is the point of
    running QBBS if not to use Hudson ?

    Tell me why you don't run QBBS and maybe i have a chance to answer your question.

    I want to check that packets contain the right messages and have
    been routed to the correct outbound directories.

    That was done already when you use stoneaged software. If there
    are routing troubles then the software is old enough that this
    troubles would be known.

    You are assuming the software has no bugs.

    No. I assume that after years of fidonet wide operation routing bugs would be known.

    What if I want to check my packed messages match what the mailer's outbound queue says ?

    If you do routing it does not match. That's the purpose of routing. You send messages not to the destination but to another node. You will have a destination mismatch between the messages and the envelope.

    And even if you suspect your routing software faulty your links would use other software that has proved it's working because you can read this routed mail.

    How do I check this without inspecting the packet ?

    You could see it in the outbound directories itself or in the
    logfiles if your software tries to connect to another system.

    Except outbound directories contain files like "EFAABCFF.mo0".

    Those files doesn't have something to do with routing. You need to check to flowfiles which are responsible for the routing destination. Those are simple ascii files readable by a simple text editor.

    I want a nice user interface to scroll through and open such packets
    and check the message contents.

    Golded can't do this. Golded is a user editor that is in use after or before those packed mail has been processed.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to MARK LEWIS on Sun Mar 14 17:02:00 2021
    My point was I can skip all the other software and just go directly
    from QWK to a node.

    not really... QWK is lossy... especially with FTN messages... there is
    a lot of information lost when FTN messages are packed via QWK...
    it should be noted that QWK was shoehorned into FTN... it originates
    on a completely different network and has much different principles...
    QWK works for end users solely because it transfers the message body
    which is 99% of what they care about... QWK links messages by subject
    line which we all know is a fallacy and quite wrong in many cases...
    there are better ways to properly link message threads no matter what
    the subject lines are...

    All I need to go from QWK to node is (1) mailer, (2) mail processor and (3) GoldED.

    Kai Richter makes it sound like some long complicated process.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 14 17:03:00 2021
    How are people supposed to know where the official sources are?

    As I already written in a message to you.
    One way is to google golded, which will lead you to the Wikipedia
    page. And there you find this info:
    Website github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/

    Another way is asking here.

    I guess by now you should know where to find it!

    That depends on whether you accept Wikipedia as a trustworthy source. People write anything on there.

    When I unzip "GED3B3WC.ZIP" every looks genuine. There is "FILE_ID.DIZ", "!readme.1st", DOS extender, full documentation, registration forms, installer.

    On the other hand "golded-plus-1.1.5-20180707-win32-msvc2010.7z" just contains 3 executables in a suspicious "bin" directory, a "share" directory (which makes no sense) and no documentation on how to get started. The main program does not even run.

    The GitHub distribution looks dodgy.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 14 17:04:00 2021
    What are you talking about?
    I am not aware of anybody wanting money for golded!
    The authors wanted money for it.

    Yes ... I should have worded that better.
    I meant AFTER it has been released as open source by Odinn the
    original author.
    Long after this point in time:
    11/11/1997 05:58a

    The point is there is a significant difference in the quality and standard of workmanship between the GoldED released by the original author versus the stuff you get on GitHub today.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 14 17:05:00 2021
    It is more professional to include documentation with binaries.

    You seem not to be very familiar with how open source works.
    People do things for free in their spare time.
    If they need a feature they add it.
    If they do not like to write docs they will not.
    They contribute this work for free and for the benefit of us all.

    I know how open source works. The typical mentality is "you're on your own".

    The least they could do is package their distributions properly.

    Feel free to compile a documentation package, and they will upload it
    if it makes sense.

    That is the job of the current maintainer.

    Well no.
    The vast majority of users were using Golded already.
    So they just exchange the new binaries.
    Most of them have set it up already for many years.

    If the current GoldED+ maintainers had any pride in their work, then they would write upgrade installers.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to RICHARD MENEDETTER on Sun Mar 14 17:06:00 2021
    It contains everything from old Golded and adds features and bug
    fixes.
    No it does not.

    What exactly is missing from the source tarball?

    I do not care about the sources. I care about the binary distribution.

    I want a proper release distribution, with documentation and
    installer. That is what the people who sold GoldED had.

    And I want world peace!

    No you do not.

    You are just expressing a desire about something that you actually will do nothing about.

    In the meantime I think it is REALLY better if you stick with your
    ancient package. Better for you, better for us.

    No you do not.

    You are pretending to suggest that it is better for me to use an old version because you hope bugs in it will irreparably corrupt my message bases and cause permanent data loss or other bad things to happen.

    Somebody in charge has to say "This is the current stable release".

    here you are:
    https://github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/releases

    I suppose that is better than nothing.

    But the snapshots are as stable as the stable release.
    That is why most of us use the current snapshot.

    Who said the snapshots are as stable as the release ? If that was the case, then it would be the latest release.

    The chronic displacement of releases by snapshots is evidence that the maintainers have no confidence in their work.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Sun Mar 14 17:07:00 2021
    And? As i said before, in other countries we had to pay for every
    local call and telnet access means IP access and Internet flatrate
    wasn't there in POTS/NGN migration time.

    Nowadays downloading 1 mb costs nothing. The previous reasons are now just lazy excuses.

    Not packaging their software properly shows they take no pride in
    their work.

    I don't know what they take. But pride is not in the list of my
    guesses.

    That is a shame for GoldED+.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Sun Mar 14 17:08:00 2021
    If I ran QuickBBS, then I would use Hudson. What is the point of
    running QBBS if not to use Hudson ?

    Tell me why you don't run QBBS and maybe i have a chance to answer
    your question.

    I do run QBBS.

    I do not like it because RemoteAccess is better.

    You are assuming the software has no bugs.

    No. I assume that after years of fidonet wide operation routing bugs
    would be known.

    I want to check it for myself.

    What if I want to check my packed messages match what the mailer's outbound queue says ?

    If you do routing it does not match. That's the purpose of routing.
    You send messages not to the destination but to another node. You will have a destination mismatch between the messages and the envelope.
    And even if you suspect your routing software faulty your links would
    use other software that has proved it's working because you can read
    this routed mail.

    If I use an area manager and have downlinks subscribed to different echoes, I want to be able to check that the scanner is packing mail correctly for each downlink (ie. downlinks are only receiving messages from subscribed echoes). A packet inspector makes it easy to monitor the files in outbound.

    Except outbound directories contain files like "EFAABCFF.mo0".

    Those files doesn't have something to do with routing. You need to
    check to flowfiles which are responsible for the routing destination. Those are simple ascii files readable by a simple text editor.
    I want a nice user interface to scroll through and open such packets
    and check the message contents.

    Those files definitely have something to do with routing.

    In BSO-style outbound the file names and extensions control when and where the mailer sends files. When there are 50 files in outbound, a packet inspector makes it easy to check the intended routing.

    Golded can't do this. Golded is a user editor that is in use after or before those packed mail has been processed.

    Yes. This question was previously answered. But you insist on assuming there is no use to inspecting packets - which is wrong.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 14 15:52:52 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    14 Mar 21, Marceline Jones wrote to KAI RICHTER:

    But there is no need to struggle with problems that the stoneage
    already solved.

    If I ran QuickBBS, then I would use Hudson. What is the point of
    running QBBS if not to use Hudson ?

    Tell me why you don't run QBBS and maybe i have a chance to
    answer your question.

    I do run QBBS.

    I do not like it because RemoteAccess is better.

    Thanks. That's my point you've been asking for. See above, Hudson does have problems and other formats do it better. Same applies to QBBS.

    You are assuming the software has no bugs.

    No. I assume that after years of fidonet wide operation routing
    bugs would be known.

    I want to check it for myself.

    If you don't trust the tosser i'm sure you wouldn't like to trust a packet inspector software. Sorry but i think the only reliable tools for you would be the hex viewer of your choice.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Marceline Jones on Sun Mar 14 16:28:42 2021
    Hello Marceline!

    14 Mar 21, Marceline Jones wrote to RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    What exactly is missing from the source tarball?

    I do not care about the sources. I care about the binary distribution.

    This community doesn't match to you. You will feel uncomfortable with our ways of doing things and with our level of quality acceptance.

    I know how open source works.
    The typical mentality is "you're on your own".

    True, because that is the main purpose of open source, to give YOU the possibilty to do it on your own.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Mon Mar 15 10:15:50 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    14 Mar 2021 17:03, from Marceline Jones -> RICHARD MENEDETTER:

    How are people supposed to know where the official sources are?
    As I already written in a message to you.
    One way is to google golded, which will lead you to the Wikipedia
    page. And there you find this info:
    Website github.com/golded-plus/golded-plus/
    Another way is asking here.
    I guess by now you should know where to find it!
    That depends on whether you accept Wikipedia as a trustworthy source. People write anything on there.

    You have seen the other way, asking here.
    And you did receive an answer.
    And that answer is the same as is written on Wikipedia.

    When I unzip "GED3B3WC.ZIP" every looks genuine. There is
    "FILE_ID.DIZ", "!readme.1st", DOS extender, full documentation, registration forms, installer.

    On the other hand "golded-plus-1.1.5-20180707-win32-msvc2010.7z" just contains 3 executables in a suspicious "bin" directory, a "share" directory (which makes no sense) and no documentation on how to get started. The main program does not even run.

    The GitHub distribution looks dodgy.

    If it looks dodgy to you then do not use it.
    You have the free choice.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... You do the dishes and a month later you have to start all over again.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: A Wise Man Once Said...I Don't Know. (2:310/31)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Kai Richter on Mon Mar 15 11:51:53 2021
    Kai wrote (2021-03-14):

    I know how open source works.
    The typical mentality is "you're on your own".

    True, because that is the main purpose of open source, to give YOU the possibilty to do it on your own.

    open source bullshit bingo

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Oli on Mon Mar 15 18:39:56 2021
    Hello Oli!

    15 Mar 21, Oli wrote to Kai Richter:

    I know how open source works.
    The typical mentality is "you're on your own".

    True, because that is the main purpose of open source, to give
    YOU the possibilty to do it on your own.

    open source bullshit bingo

    Due to translation i'm not sure what exactly you want to say with that. But it does not matter. You can see what kind of bullshit you will get and take your own decision to use it or not. If you are not happy with that, don't use it or modify it until you are happy with it. It's all your freedom.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Tue Mar 23 23:45:00 2021
    Thanks. That's my point you've been asking for. See above, Hudson does have problems and other formats do it better. Same applies to QBBS.

    Hudson is sufficient for local areas (200 areas, 16000 messages, 32767 numbers). Maximising the use of features available demonstrates a greater appreciation for the software.

    If you don't trust the tosser i'm sure you wouldn't like to trust a
    packet inspector software. Sorry but i think the only reliable tools
    for you would be the hex viewer of your choice.
    Regards

    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to KAI RICHTER on Tue Mar 23 23:46:00 2021
    I know how open source works.
    The typical mentality is "you're on your own".

    True, because that is the main purpose of open source, to give YOU the possibilty to do it on your own.

    More people would use GoldED+ if it was packaged better.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Marceline Jones on Mon Mar 22 16:51:44 2021
    Re: Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Tue Mar 23 2021 23:45:00


    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    who, in their right minds, is archiving PKTs into bundles in this day in age? :smh:


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Marceline Jones on Mon Mar 22 17:10:26 2021
    Re: Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Tue Mar 23 2021 23:46:00


    More people would use GoldED+ if it was packaged better.

    that's highly doubtful in today's world... if it were the case, there'd have been a lot more people talking about it and there simply are not and have not been, other than some sysops, since Odinn Sorensen passed from this
    realm...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From August Abolins@1:153/757.2 to mark lewis on Wed Mar 24 10:08:26 2021
    Re: Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Tue Mar 23 2021 23:45:00


    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    who, in their right minds, is archiving PKTs into bundles in this day in age? :smh:

    One of my 'nets is delivering archived PKTs in the form ####.MO1. ####.M02 ####.TU1, etc. That's fine.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Wed Mar 24 19:25:47 2021
    On 24.03.2021 19:08, August Abolins wrote:

    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    who, in their right minds, is archiving PKTs into bundles in this day in age? :smh:

    One of my 'nets is delivering archived PKTs in the form ####.MO1. ####.M02 ####.TU1, etc. That's fine.

    As a point you can talk to the areafix of your boss and ask for archived packet, or not. (try %packer)

    Points usually poll their bosses only few times a day, and there may be hundreds of small .PKT's waiting. In my opinion it is better to receive one big arcmail bundle than millions of .PKT's.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to August Abolins on Wed Mar 24 14:58:15 2021
    Re: Re: Create message bases
    By: August Abolins to mark lewis on Wed Mar 24 2021 10:08:26


    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    who, in their right minds, is archiving PKTs into bundles in this day in age? :smh:

    One of my 'nets is delivering archived PKTs in the form ####.MO1. ####.M02 ####.TU1, etc. That's fine.

    yes, those are bundles... the point is that doing all that is not really needed in today's FTN world... especially with binkp and mailers having the ability to compress during send in the same way that web servers do...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Tommi Koivula on Wed Mar 24 20:08:18 2021
    Hello Tommi!

    24 Mar 21, Tommi Koivula wrote to August Abolins:

    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    who, in their right minds, is archiving PKTs into bundles in this
    day in age? :smh:
    One of my 'nets is delivering archived PKTs in
    the form ####.MO1. ####.M02 ####.TU1, etc. That's fine.

    As a point you can talk to the areafix of your boss and ask for
    archived packet, or not. (try %packer)

    And i'm stumbling in translation again. I do know that it's common to call a file.ZIP or similar an archive. The CP/M tool arc is described as "general archive and file compression utility". Please note the wording "and" which i do understand as two different things.

    Within the goldref documentation the wording "archive" refers to goldeds file distribution files. My understanding of archive is a collection of content for preservation.

    For PKT files usually the other use "compression" applies. I'd like to recommend to follow the areafix command %packer and talk about packed or unpacked PKTs. The keywords pack and unpack can be found within the fidoconfig configuration environment of the husky software suite too.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Thu Mar 25 22:14:24 2021
    mark lewis wrote to August Abolins <=-

    yes, those are bundles... the point is that doing all that is not
    really needed in today's FTN world... especially with binkp and
    mailers having the ability to compress during send in the
    same way that web servers do...

    You forget that not everyone uses BinkP and mailers to move mail,
    right? There's also some people that only poll once a day and prefer
    to get one large compressed bundle than hundreds of little PKTs.

    I seem to notice a general trend amongst Zone 1 sysops that seem to
    think that everyone uses BinkP and has a full-time Internet connection
    in the BBS world. Personally, I prefer just using FTP to move mail
    since it'd a hell of a lot simpler than BinkD.

    But I digress. This really is a topic for another echo rather than in
    GOLDED.

    -- Sean

    ... Where there's a will, there's an inheritance tax.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to MARK LEWIS on Sat Mar 27 10:28:00 2021
    Re: Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to KAI RICHTER on Tue Mar 23 2021 23:45:00


    Unzipping a PKT and viewing the *.msg file is easier.

    who, in their right minds, is archiving PKTs into bundles in this day
    in age? :smh:

    Somebody who uses oMMM.

    A packet inspector will tell me where "FF9F02C1.frG" is destined easier than manually inspecting messages or using an hex editor.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to MARK LEWIS on Sat Mar 27 10:29:00 2021
    More people would use GoldED+ if it was packaged better.

    that's highly doubtful in today's world... if it were the case,
    there'd have been a lot more people talking about it and there simply
    are not and have not been, other than some sysops, since Odinn
    Sorensen passed from this realm...

    I guarantee you that more people would use it (at least 1 more).

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Marceline Jones on Sat Mar 27 09:06:30 2021
    Hi Marceline!

    27 Mar 2021 10:29, from Marceline Jones -> MARK LEWIS:

    More people would use GoldED+ if it was packaged better.
    that's highly doubtful in today's world... if it were the case,
    there'd have been a lot more people talking about it and there
    simply are not and have not been, other than some sysops, since
    Odinn Sorensen passed from this realm...
    I guarantee you that more people would use it (at least 1 more).

    Probably exactly 1 more.
    This was NEVER a topic until you came around.

    Anyway we understood you do not prefer it.
    So no need to continue posting.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... When the Gods want to punish us, they give us what we want.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Iraqi Bingo: B-52... F-16... M-1... F-18... F-117... (2:310/31)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Marceline Jones on Sat Mar 27 08:43:31 2021
    Re: Re: Create message bases
    By: Marceline Jones to MARK LEWIS on Sat Mar 27 2021 10:28:00


    A packet inspector will tell me where "FF9F02C1.frG" is destined easier than manually inspecting messages or using an hex editor.

    that's a bundle, not a packet... depending on the mailer/tosser combination, the file name of the bundle will tell you what system it is destined for... some might use simple hex notation for the net/node while others are a
    little more complicated using 2s complement or inverse 2s complement to represent the net/node destination...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two%27s_complement


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Marceline Jones@1:103/705 to MARK LEWIS on Sun Apr 4 09:16:00 2021
    A packet inspector will tell me where "FF9F02C1.frG" is destined easier
    than manually inspecting messages or using an hex editor.
    that's a bundle, not a packet... depending on the mailer/tosser combination, the file name of the bundle will tell you what system it
    is destined for... some might use simple hex notation for the net/node while others are a little more complicated using 2s complement or
    inverse 2s complement to represent the net/node destination... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two%27s_complement

    Well I want a packet inspector so I can check messages are created and destined properly. This feature is probably out of scope because GoldED is just a message editor.

    ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Marceline Jones on Sat Apr 3 14:02:02 2021
    Marceline Jones wrote to MARK LEWIS <=-

    Well I want a packet inspector so I can check messages are
    created and destined properly. This feature is probably out
    of scope because GoldED is just a message editor.

    I've used InspectA for well over twenty years for packet inspecting
    and recommend it.

    -- Sean

    ... Where there's a will, there's an inheritance tax.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Mauro Veiga@4:801/194 to SEAN DENNIS on Tue Apr 6 10:58:00 2021
    Quoting Sean Dennis to Marceline Jones <=-

    I've used InspectA for well over twenty years for packet inspecting
    and recommend it.

    Great! Where do I find to download?


    ... File COLDBEER.CAN not found....operator not loaded!
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
    --- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
    * Origin: Ninho do Abutre 2 - Rio de Janeiro - Brasil * (4:801/194)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Mauro Veiga on Tue Apr 6 14:12:06 2021
    Hello Mauro,

    Tuesday April 06 2021 10:58, you wrote to me:

    Great! Where do I find to download?

    On my BBS. Look for INSP110D.ZIP in BBS.FidoUtils; this is the DOS version.

    You will also need the "unlimited shareware" key that was released by the author to remove the shareware nag and delay. That file is I110-KEY.ZIP in BBS.Utils.

    If you have any issues, let me know.

    -- Sean

    ... Qui trop embrasse mal entreint. (Grab much, gain little.)
    --- GoldED/2 3.0.1
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From Mauro Veiga@4:801/194.1 to Sean Dennis on Tue Apr 6 17:38:00 2021
    Ola Sean!

    ** 06.04.21 - 14:12, Sean Dennis wrote to Mauro Veiga:

    Hello Mauro,

    Tuesday April 06 2021 10:58, you wrote to me:

    Great! Where do I find to download?

    On my BBS. Look for INSP110D.ZIP in BBS.FidoUtils; this is the DOS version.

    You will also need the "unlimited shareware" key that was released by the author to remove the shareware nag and delay. That file is I110-KEY.ZIP in BBS.Utils.

    If you have any issues, let me know.

    Thanks, Sean! :-))

    []'s
    |
    ---------------- telnet://abutre.no-ip.org:2323 ----------- * ------
    |


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Point da Coruja - Brasil * (4:801/194.1)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Sean Dennis on Tue Apr 6 23:30:18 2021
    Hello Sean!

    06 Apr 21, Sean Dennis wrote to Mauro Veiga:

    Look for INSP110D.ZIP in BBS.FidoUtils; this is the DOS version.

    You will also need the "unlimited shareware" key that was released by
    the author to remove the shareware nag and delay. That file is I110-KEY.ZIP in BBS.Utils.

    If you have any issues, let me know.

    Is there any reason why the key is not included with the build? Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end users?

    More people would use InspectA if it was packaged better.
    I guarantee you that more people would use it (at least 1 more).

    Sorry, couldn't resist... >:-)

    What am i doing? This is offtopic too. If you would like to support the use of packet inspectors please go to a matching echoarea.

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Matthias Hertzog@2:301/101 to Kai Richter on Wed Apr 7 00:16:31 2021
    Hello Kai!

    More people would use InspectA if it was packaged better.
    I guarantee you that more people would use it (at least 1 more).

    +1 for me.

    Matthias
    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: MHS Systems (2:301/101)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Kai Richter on Wed Apr 7 14:26:21 2021
    Hello Kai!

    Tuesday April 06 2021 23:30, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

    Hello Sean!

    06 Apr 21, Sean Dennis wrote to Mauro Veiga:

    Look for INSP110D.ZIP in BBS.FidoUtils; this is the DOS version.

    You will also need the "unlimited shareware" key that was
    released by the author to remove the shareware nag and delay.
    That file is I110-KEY.ZIP in BBS.Utils.

    If you have any issues, let me know.

    Is there any reason why the key is not included with the build? Is it
    due to some elitist programmer contempt for non technical end users?

    More people would use InspectA if it was packaged better.
    I guarantee you that more people would use it (at least 1 more).

    Sorry, couldn't resist... >:-)

    What am i doing? This is offtopic too. If you would like to support
    the use of packet inspectors please go to a matching echoarea.

    The software is 20+ years old and likewise has been sitting on various BBS file
    systems since then.

    The file description in FILE_ID.DIZ says that it is now donate ware although on
    my system there is a file as I110-KEY.ZIP | i110-key.zip that contains an updated? HLP file along with a README file.


    Sorry most BBS sysops do not have the time to re-package s/w just because some one makes a comment regarding finding the right tool.

    That's why we have up to date lists of all files available as well as as a current newfiles list.


    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Kai Richter on Wed Apr 7 00:03:02 2021
    Kai Richter wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    Is there any reason why the key is not included with the
    build? Is it due to some elitist programmer contempt for
    non technical end users?

    The author, David Nugent (who also wrote the BNU FOSSIL driver, I
    believe), was pissed that so many people used his program and never
    registered it. I have seen the original message where he told people
    off and then said he was leaving the BBS scene forever.

    This key does NOT register InspectA but only removes the shareware nag
    screen and unregistered timebomb in the program. David was very
    specific about this key. He was rather angry about the whole
    situation and that's why InspectA is technically unregisterable
    abandonware.

    What am i doing? This is offtopic too. If you would like to
    support the use of packet inspectors please go to a
    matching echoarea.

    Mauro is a user on my BBS and we'll talk shop there. However, I do
    have InspectA set up as an external program within GoldEd/2 so I can
    look at packets from within GED. InspectA opens in its own window so
    I can use GoldEd and InspectA side by side. I used to have PGP
    running years ago in GED also.

    If you want to talk about InspectA, I invite you to do so in
    BBS_CARNIVAL since I am the co-moderator there. :)

    -- Sean

    ... A PC takes the guesswork out of it. So does a bikini.
    ___ MultiMail/Win v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:10123 (1:18/200)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Sean Dennis on Thu Apr 8 19:06:50 2021
    On 2021-04-07 00:03:02, Sean Dennis (1:18/200) wrote to Kai Richter:

    The author, David Nugent (who also wrote the BNU FOSSIL driver, I believe), was pissed that so many people used his program and never registered it. I have seen the original message where he told people
    off and then said he was leaving the BBS scene forever.

    PKT inspection was always an extremely niche feature, though. The number of sysops who actually needed specialised software to look at PKTs on a regular basis would've only been in the hundreds at best. So his target audience was always going to be pretty small from the start, and it's telling that (to my knowledge) nobody's written a similar program just to do that one thing, without the file manager part. There just wasn't the demand for it.

    I'm not sure InspectA had much else going for it. As a file manager it was a bit mediocre. I suspect that was the main reason more people didn't pay for it.

    InspectA 1.1 was released in 1993. There was already competition from XTreeGold & Norton Commander, both of which were already extremely popular (and also heavily pirated!) and arguably far superior.

    But by 1997 he was fighting a losing battle on a few fronts:

    There were now stable versions of ZTreeBold & File Commander/2, both very faithful shareware OS/2 clones of XTreeGold & Norton Commander.

    The demise of FidoNet had already begun. Its peak was two years earlier. A lot of BBSes had already closed.

    There was also a big increase of free software in FidoNet. For example Maximus and Squish, which ironically David himself worked on, and both of which were later open-sourced.

    Then there was a big increase in open source FidoNet software. Msged was a good example, and was something I contributed to intermittantly between 1995-1998. It competed with the shareware version of GoldED, and ultimately probably contributed to its open-sourcing. In 2021 open source software in FidoNet is completely normal, and probably runs on the majority of FidoNet nodes.

    Outside of FidoNet the popularity of Windows 95 also signalled the demise of text-mode apps like InspectA or XTreeGold, or GoldED. They still ran under Windows 95 but often not very well, or lacked good OS integration (clipboard support, long filenames...). There was also never a 32-bit Windows version of InspectA, which I thought was a strange omission.
    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to andrew clarke on Thu Apr 8 14:37:04 2021
    Hello andrew!

    Thursday April 08 2021 19:06, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

    On 2021-04-07 00:03:02, Sean Dennis (1:18/200) wrote to Kai Richter:

    The author, David Nugent (who also wrote the BNU FOSSIL driver, I
    believe), was pissed that so many people used his program and
    never registered it. I have seen the original message where he
    told people off and then said he was leaving the BBS scene
    forever.

    PKT inspection was always an extremely niche feature, though. The
    number of sysops who actually needed specialised software to look at
    PKTs on a regular basis would've only been in the hundreds at best. So
    his target audience was always going to be pretty small from the
    start, and it's telling that (to my knowledge) nobody's written a
    similar program just to do that one thing, without the file manager
    part. There just wasn't the demand for it.

    I'm not sure InspectA had much else going for it. As a file manager it
    was a bit mediocre. I suspect that was the main reason more people
    didn't pay for it.

    There is another tool that may well do similar - pktview that I obtained from the Husky project and this own also works under Linux.

    It will display the content of a packet that may have one or more messages.

    It is in husty-master/misc. Cannot currently find the source code for it but it is here some where as I recompiled it for Linux as x64.


    Vincent


    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Sean Dennis on Thu Apr 8 14:24:04 2021
    Hello Sean!

    07 Apr 21, Sean Dennis wrote to Kai Richter:

    What am i doing? This is offtopic too.

    Mauro is a user on my BBS and we'll talk shop there.

    Thanks! I'm sorry, i expected that today any writer was following the echoarea for some time. Please start a full text search for "elitist" to find the origin of my collection of "any questions?" from "another" QWK user.

    You put up better arguments against re-packing software that have splitted distribution files. The authors rights and local copyright law.

    If you want to talk about InspectA, I invite you to do so in
    BBS_CARNIVAL

    I don't have need for a packet inspector.
    And i'm sure you don't want me there. <eg>

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Vincent Coen on Thu Apr 8 14:16:57 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Vincent Coen to andrew clarke on Thu Apr 08 2021 02:37 pm

    There is another tool that may well do similar - pktview that I obtained from the Husky project and this own also works under Linux.

    They can still be found around and about. pktview is a bash script and the husky project also has pktinfo. It works well.

    The Synchronet project has pktdump to look at .pkt files as well as fmsgdump to look at *.msg files. There is a windows download of pktdump on Vertrauen if anyone needs something like that.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... You can name your salary here, I call mine fred.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Alan Ianson on Fri Apr 9 22:13:29 2021
    Hello Alan!

    Thursday April 08 2021 14:16, you wrote to me:

    Re: Create message bases
    By: Vincent Coen to andrew clarke on Thu Apr 08 2021 02:37 pm

    There is another tool that may well do similar - pktview that I
    obtained from the Husky project and this own also works under
    Linux.

    They can still be found around and about. pktview is a bash script and
    the husky project also has pktinfo. It works well.

    The Synchronet project has pktdump to look at .pkt files as well as
    fmsgdump to look at *.msg files. There is a windows download of
    pktdump on Vertrauen if anyone needs something like that.

    Finally found the source and it was in Soupgate sources.

    I knew I had compiled it, blasted memory :)

    If anyone needs it let me know but you will have to compile it if you are not using Linux but there again the binaries are in the Husky misc area.

    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v7.1 X64/Mbse v1.0.7.21/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Vincent Coen on Sat Apr 17 15:37:10 2021
    On 2021-04-08 14:37:04, Vincent Coen (2:250/1) wrote to andrew clarke:

    I'm not sure InspectA had much else going for it. As a file manager
    it was a bit mediocre. I suspect that was the main reason more people
    didn't pay for it.

    There is another tool that may well do similar - pktview that I obtained from the Husky project and this own also works under Linux.

    It will display the content of a packet that may have one or more messages.

    I wasn't actually aware of pktview. It's a Perl 5 script that reads from stdin.

    FWIW InspectA allowed you to delete individual messages from packets, which obviously isn't something pktview can do. Though we're getting into very niche territory there.

    It is in husty-master/misc. Cannot currently find the source code for
    it but it is here some where as I recompiled it for Linux as x64.

    https://github.com/huskyproject/hpt/blob/master/misc/pktview

    or https://raw.githubusercontent.com/huskyproject/hpt/master/misc/pktview

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Alan Ianson on Sat Apr 17 15:57:47 2021
    On 2021-04-08 14:16:56, Alan Ianson (1:153/757.2) wrote to Vincent Coen:

    There is another tool that may well do similar - pktview that I
    obtained from the Husky project and this own also works under
    Linux.

    They can still be found around and about. pktview is a bash script and
    the husky project also has pktinfo. It works well.

    FWIW pktview is a Perl script.

    WRT pktinfo, I worked on C code recently and made some improvements, but its weakness is it heavily relies on HPT's packet parsing functions. A broken packet will tend to make pktinfo abort execution (like HPT would) instead of just displaying what information it can. There's not really an easy way I can fix that without potentially breaking something in HPT, so it will have to do.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to andrew clarke on Sat Apr 17 12:01:50 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: andrew clarke to Alan Ianson on Sat Apr 17 2021 03:57 pm

    FWIW pktview is a Perl script.

    Yes, now that I take a closer look it is.

    WRT pktinfo, I worked on C code recently and made some improvements, but its weakness is it heavily relies on HPT's packet parsing functions. A broken packet will tend to make pktinfo abort execution (like HPT would) instead of just displaying what information it can. There's not really an easy way I can fix that without potentially breaking something in HPT, so it will have to do.

    pktinfo has never failed me so far so I hope I will never get packets that are so broken.

    I haven't looked at pktview in a long time but I can't seem to get it to read a packet currently. How does one use pktview?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Always listen to experts, hear the impossible, then do it.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Michael Dukelsky@2:5020/1042 to Alan Ianson on Sat Apr 17 22:11:38 2021
    Hello Alan,

    Saturday April 17 2021, Alan Ianson wrote to andrew clarke:

    I haven't looked at pktview in a long time but I can't seem to get it
    to read a packet currently. How does one use pktview?

    # This script reads PKT from stdin and prints it's contents in human-readabe form into stdout
    # options:
    # -v verbose
    # -s print SEEN-BY, PATH and PTH kludges
    # -r print RFC-* kludges
    # -p print PID and TID kludges
    # -h print usage information

    pktview -vsrp < 6034b1c0.pkt

    Michael

    ... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Michael Dukelsky on Sat Apr 17 12:41:44 2021
    Re: Create message bases
    By: Michael Dukelsky to Alan Ianson on Sat Apr 17 2021 10:11 pm

    # This script reads PKT from stdin and prints it's contents in human-readabe form into stdout
    # options:
    # -v verbose
    # -s print SEEN-BY, PATH and PTH kludges
    # -r print RFC-* kludges
    # -p print PID and TID kludges
    # -h print usage information

    pktview -vsrp < 6034b1c0.pkt

    Thank you. I was missing a < on my command line.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... The worst thing about censorship is лллллллллл.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Alan Ianson on Sun Apr 18 15:12:20 2021
    On 2021-04-17 12:01:50, Alan Ianson (1:153/757.2) wrote to andrew clarke:

    I haven't looked at pktview in a long time but I can't seem to get it
    to read a packet currently. How does one use pktview?

    cat filename.pkt | ./pktview

    or

    ./pktview < filename.pkt

    Functionally there is no difference between the above commands but the first is easier to read left-to-right.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Oli on Wed Sep 29 22:39:22 2021
    Hello Oli!

    15 Mar 2021 11:51, Oli wrote to Kai Richter:

    Kai wrote (2021-03-14):

    I know how open source works.
    The typical mentality is "you're on your own".

    True, because that is the main purpose of open source, to give YOU the
    possibilty to do it on your own.

    open source bullshit bingo

    playing golf with the president :)


    Regards Benny

    ... too late to die young :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.14.8-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
    * Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)