Hello Henri,

On Wednesday June 05 2019 01:58, you wrote to me:

You can write e'e'n in stead, no special apostrophes needed ;-).

MvdV>> I can, but it looks awfull.

I donot care for that very few occasion.

But I do. And other readers may as well. Displeasing the readers of your writings may make them use the "next key" next time.

MvdV>> Plus that if I need to encase it in quotes,
MvdV>> reading becomes a parsing contest: 'e'e'n'. Can you parse
MvdV>> "'e'e'n'"?

Why should it be enclosed in quotes?

To differentiate between text quoted form someone else and one's own text of course/

Toen ik hem vroeg hoeveel, was zijn antwoord: "e'e'n rookgordijn".

Toen ik hem vroeg hoeveel, was zijn antwoord een rookgordijn.

You can write Ro"el, no special apostrophes needed ;-).

MvdV>> I can write it. In the sense that with some effort I can push
MvdV>> the required keys in my keyboard.

And I have problems to find the right keys for that High ASCII
character I seldom use.

1) "High ASCII" is a misnomer. Characters outside the range specified by ASCII are not an alternate flavour of ASCII. Ther are not Red Ascii, not Blue ASCII, not Left ASCII, not Right ASCII, not low ASCII and not High ASCII.

2) Just install the proper keyboard and display drivers. Even under DOS this is very easy. Here it woks exactly as the old typewriters with dead keys for the accents and tremas. Very easy.

Besides that, on many machines it is something else for that
character, no thanks. Almost no keyboard is the same ;-(.

That is what keyboard drivers were invented for: to MAKE then the same. All the keyboards here in my house are the same. That keyboards in another country may look different do no affect me.

MvdV>> But when I see "Ro"el" I have to think very hard to extract the
MvdV>> meaning. Plus that search algoritms will not work with this
MvdV>> encoding.

That's just a much better privacy lock ;-).

Huh?

MvdV>> Googling "Ro‰l" and "Ro"el" give very different results.

You opposed not te be found by Google.

Not for everything. I do not want to share everything with everyone. Does not mean I want NOTHING to be found.

At the basis school I learned that the trema means a split before
the character it is placed on. So Ro"el is correct and Roe"l is
wrong.

MvdV>> So you say. But my guess is that that is just your opinion and
MvdV>> not fact learned at school.

It was explicitely explained where the word should be splitted,
i.e. before the letter with the trema on it.

Be that as it may be, I don't think you were taught the alternative spelling of Ro"e...

Sorry, I have never seen it spelled as "Ro"el" anywhere, Always as "Ro‰l".

MvdV>> When I learned to read at school there were no computers ans
MvdV>> ASCII did not exist yet.

That has nothing to do with it. The trema is needed to split the pronounciation between the two vowels, you normally speach out as one sound.

Exactly! The trema is NEEDED!. It is not just a fad, it is needed to properly express what one wants to say. You can not just dispense with them without losing information.

MvdV>> Dutch typewrites could deal witg accents and tremas in the
MvdV>> proper way. Encodeing ano with trema as the sequence ""o" or
MvdV>> "o"" was totally unheard of.

Of course no one wrote the trema before a letter, but just above.

So why sould I do it different just because I now use a computer instead of an antique machanical typewriter?

The Duth "y with dots are mostly spelled as two characters "ij"

MvdV>> That is not how I learned it in elementary school. On
MvdV>> Roggeveen's "Aap, noot mies" leesplankje yje "ij" in "Gijs" was
MvdV>> one letter:

MvdV>> https://www.knutselstore.nl/diamond-painting/diamond-painting-aa
MvdV>> p-noot- mies-40x60/

I have never seen that at our schools.

Really? Were they gone that soon?

MvdV>> And that is how I learned to write it. ONE letter, written
MvdV>> without lifting the pen from the paper.

We also learned to write the y in two letters without lifting the pen
from the paper.

If the pen was not lifted from the paer in what way was the writing different from writing it as one letter?

I only saw that single character after I left my 5 schools I have been
on.

Changing school that often seems to not have learned you more...

MvdV>> Writing it as a the digraph 'ij' was a consession to
MvdV>> internationalisation when the market was flooded with
MvdV>> foreign typewriters not supporting the Dutch concatenated 'ij'

My Swiss made typewriter Hermes 3000 from 1975 indeed does not have.

Of couse. The concatenated ij is not part of any of the four Swiss kanguages. But you were born and raised in The Netherlands were you? Ans so most of your writinhs wre in Dutch wereb;t they? So why did you buy a Swiss typewriter instaed of a good solid Dutch one? Buy local remember?

MvdV>> Yet there are EU countries were Cyrillic is the alfabet for the
MvdV>> native Language. North Macedonia and Bulgaria come to mind. It
MvdV>> is not all that far. You can het there in your own car without
MvdV>> needing a passport.

I have not the energy for to learn.

MvdV>> Pity. But you can't block the rest of Fidonet just because of
MvdV>> that...

You are also going to learn at least the 2000 characters in Chinese or Japanes, Thay etc.?

We are discussing character sets in Fidonet. Presently there are no Chinese or Japanese participants in Fidonet. But there are a lot of Russians...

MvdV>>>> Bj”rn is right. The 26 letters of the ASCII character set are
MvdV>>>> not enough to properly express oneself in writing. Even for
MvdV>>>> the Brittish it is not enough . No pound sign 'œ' in ASCII...

You can write UKP for it, no special sign needed ;-).

The problem with thse acronyms is that they are seldom unique.

Every body will understand the term: this costs UKP 2.000,00

Are you sure? Will every body (sic!) understand this mixed representation? How much is it really? "two" or "two thousand"? "2.000,0" is not a well formed decimal expression in the Anglosaxon world. So why should one lay the link with the Pound Sterling"

"Everyone" understands 'œ'. Not everyone understands "UKP".

MvdV>> No excuse..

You can not ask everyone to learn everything.

But you want me to learn your exotic alternate spelling of accents, umlauts and tremas...


Cheers, Michiel

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Hello Henri,

On Tuesday May 28 2019 02:30, you wrote to Bj”rn Felten:

At this moment I donot like the UTF 8 circus.

Well, I don't like the Tower of Bable circus with Code Pages. So what we have in common is that we have something we do not like.

So if contributing FidoNews is restricted to UTF8 only, it will sure decrease your input.

So simple submit your contribution in ASCII only. ASCII is a subset of UTF-8, so it will be accepted.

Just help me refresh my memory: how many article did you submit so far?


Cheers, Michiel

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Hello Henri,

On Thursday May 30 2019 16:36, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Wrong tense. Your DOS FrontDoor system /was/ one of the rare
MvdV>> exceptions. It is no longer operational.

I still use it daily, I am writing on it now.
Only the transfer stopped (temporarely) because of a defective RS232
card.

The transfer part is an essential part of a Fidonet node. Without the ability to transfer files to other Fidonet systems it does not qualify as an operational Fidonet system. The fact that you use it as a terminal to read mail, does not make it an operational Fido system.

Now I use the Raspberry Pi 1B2 with RISC OS and !ROSBink for that at
IP.

So your Pi is the operational Fido system.

Then I move the received pkt's to it by floppy disk, and the sended
out ones back to the Pi. The Acorn RiscPC is the central machine in
the local net to do the transfers.

What you do with the pkt's is not pat of Fidonet strictly speaking.

MvdV>> It may have been the last of the Mohikans. ;-)

Yes.

So write an article for the Smooze about it... :)

MvdV>>>> AFAIK no Fidonet mailer ever ran on an 8 bit system.

That is not completely sure.

MvdV>> Note the "AFAIK".

That's why I was explaining it here.

OK...

Some guys of our othernet AcoNet wrote FTN BBCscan software for
the 8 bit Acorn BBC B computers to communicatie with FidoNet
systems.

I too wrote software for my 8 bit Flex system to "communicate with
Fidonet systems". I could use it to read and write messages posted
on BBS's participating in Fidonet. But it was not a Fidonet
mailer. It could not do FTS-1.

Our Acorn BBC B's could do later on with BBCscan.

Still not a Fidonet node...

That was at the end of the 80's start of the 90's.

MvdV>> If that Acorn BBS system was really a Fidonet system, what was
MvdV>> its node number and in which period was it in the Fidonet
MvdV>> nodelist?

I donot know the Node numbers, but the first one was Evert Snel, he
later on moved from The Hague to Eindhoven area and transferred his
body to become a female, they call such people transgenders.

Your point?


Cheers, Michiel

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